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Started By
Message
re: Companies continuing to offshore jobs….
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:16 pm to Thundercles
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:16 pm to Thundercles
quote:
They sadly don't have the ability to hold the moral high ground.
Why is it sad and how does morality apply to this at all?
Private companies have no moral obligation to provide high wages to American citizens. Or jobs, for that matter.
That's not why companies exist and there is no moral or civic obligation to do so.
The poster to whom you are replying obviously thinks they do have such a moral obligation. He thinks they are like a mother sow who is obligated to allow her piglets to suckle from her teat and drink as much as they want. That's the only reason they exist, to feed the employee.
And if the sow wanders over to another pasture, then she is feeding the piglets who have no right to her milk while starving the ones whom she is obligated to feed.
I have news for his fifth-grade reasoning skills. The people who put up the capital to start the companies in question are not responsible for American would-be employees like a mother sow is to her piglets. They are responsible to themselves and their shareholders and to all whom they contract with insofar as they are obligated to act legally and without fraud or deception and according to agreed upon and/or contracted terms.
But they are not obligated to provide for anyone.
And it's completely morally neutral for them to make business decisions about purchasing labor.
And it's not "sad" that labor can be purchased overseas cheaper than it can be purchased here. It's just a fact. And that fact has pros and cons. It means that we won't be employing as much labor here for those types of jobs, but it also means that the prices we pay will be lower than they otherwise would be.
It's a negative relative to America in one column and a positive in another.
If he could see the situation objectively instead of emoting from one myopic viewpoint only, he would understand that.
This post was edited on 12/3/24 at 10:18 pm
2
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:20 pm to wackatimesthree
You are seething. Posting entire essays because I said something you don’t like. Are you Chinese, because they are the primary beneficiaries from the outsourcing which you love to defend
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:26 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Why is it sad and how does morality apply to this at all?
It's sad because a lot of American business owners would like to hire locally and use goods sourced in America. For many American entrepreneurs there is joy in providing a good living to a member of the community in the form of a rewarding and well-paying job. It is again sad when they aren't able to do that and also keep their doors open.
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:31 pm to JesusSaves777
quote:
You are seething.
Yep, I'm sitting here gnashing my teeth. You got me.
Let me ask you this: Let's say I really was "seething" (even though the only one calling names and cursing on this thread is you).
So what? How does that make me wrong about anything I have said?
quote:
Posting entire essays...
If you think that post qualifies as an "entire essay," then I know for a fact that you have never read an entire essay.
You haven't, have you?
quote:
Are you Chinese, because they are the primary beneficiaries from the outsourcing which you love to defend
Yes, I am Chinese. But my English is really good, isn't it? I can write "entire essays" in English.
And you are seldom right and wrong again. WE are the primary beneficiaries of outsourcing labor. We're the ones purchasing the goods.
Again, you seem oddly incapable of understanding that someone has to buy the goods that someone else is paid to make.
That's us.
And whoever buys good made with cheaper labor benefits from a lower price.
(Was that too many words for you?)
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:33 pm to wackatimesthree
Lmao you’re boiling over. Keep seething you Chinese bitch, and keep shilling for outsourcing 
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:35 pm to JesusSaves777
quote:
Lmao you’re boiling over.
GRRRRR!!!
I'm so angry that exactly what I say should happen is going to keep happening!
That sort of thing just pisses me off!
Posted on 12/3/24 at 10:36 pm to JesusSaves777
BTW, do you realize how long it's been in this discussion since you've addressed anything except for trying to distract by claiming other people are angry?
Surely you don't think anyone is fooled by that, do you?
Surely you don't think anyone is fooled by that, do you?
Posted on 12/3/24 at 11:19 pm to Geaux-2-L-O-Miss
Add Carrier HVAC shells to the OP
Posted on 12/3/24 at 11:39 pm to wackatimesthree
Company I interviewed for in a high level position indicated they offshore all of their HR, accounting and IT (this is common). Never seen HR and accounting offshored….
Posted on 12/3/24 at 11:50 pm to TigerFred
quote:This is a fiscal-health agnostic trend that isn’t going away no matter how business-friendly the government is
If the US government would leave companies alone instead of regulating them into a choice of bankruptcy or moving, this discussion wouldn’t be necessary.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 1:23 am to JesusSaves777
quote:The same applies for owners of the business. And COL would be a lot lower if workers would just accept a lower standard of living. Why won't they? Why are they so greedy? If it's good enough for Indians, isn't it good enough for us?
Don’t be retarded. COL in the USA is WAAAY higher than India or wherever they’re outsourcing these jobs. American workers need higher pay to pay the bills.
quote:What the hell is "economic treason"? If workers would work for $1.50/hr we'd have tons of new manufacturing. But they won't. Isn't that economically treasonous? They are stopping us from having more manufacturing jobs. Sabotage!
Maximizing revenue is ok as long as it doesn’t become economic treason.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 1:43 am to FourThinInches
quote:I ahve a customer that does this. Accounting, HR and IT support too, all in the Philippines.They are completely happy. They have an educated, energetic work force that's eager to work all at a fraction of the cost of US workers that they struggle to even get to show up on a regular basis.
Never seen HR and accounting offshored…
US workers come at a high premium to offshore workers. But what marginal value to they provide? In many cases it's not much. In some cases it's lower. Yet they demand a higher wage. Who is greedy, again?
Don't misunderstand. I'm not advocating for US workers to work for low wages. I hope everyone makes as much money as they care to.
But the idea that business owners (stockholders and 401K holders!) should just accept less money “for the common good” could just as easily be applied to workers. Why should owners accept a lower standard of return on their investment, but not workers? No one want to take a pay cut… But the separation into “classes”.. of who is to be forced into making “sacrifices” is straight out of Marx.And as noted, it’s 100% aligned with Bernie, and Elizabeth Warren.
This post was edited on 12/4/24 at 2:15 am
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:09 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
I'm not the one seething.
I'm quite content in the knowledge that you might as well be screaming at the sky because you don't think it's fair that it's raining and that your only recourse is to call passersby who tell you to shut up your whining and grow up "nature sluts" or "weather whores" because we don't join you in your pointless, mindless nonsense.
It has been a while since I've seen anyone get schooled as badly as JesusSaves777 is being schooled in this thread. Bravo.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:23 am to Geaux-2-L-O-Miss
quote:
Do think they reconsider these moves with the prospect of Trumps Tarrifs?
The only thing that will onshore jobs are tariffs, changes to the trade agreements or tax restructuring.
Right now every incentive drives livable wage jobs offshore and to replace domestic workers with visa employees. Failure to do so results in an inability to compete on cost.
The goal shouldn’t be wealth creation for multinational corporations.
The goal should be wealth creation at the individual level and the current set of incentives does the exact opposite of that.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:34 am to crossfire
quote:
Trump tried originally by allowing companies to repatriate their profits and it give them a break and incentivize them to bring the companies back.
If the goal of the TCJA provisions was to bring back jobs then why did they incentivize putting more substance offshore with the mechanics of GILTI?
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:36 am to Geaux-2-L-O-Miss
Economic libertarianism just winds up being the Janus for socialist economies.
You’re gonna have to serve somebody, it may be the Devil or it may be the Lord, but you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
For me, until (or unless) humanity suddenly realizes some sort of weird Nirvana, I’ll hedge my bets on the continuation of nation states and will prefer serving the USA, which remains undefeated as the pinnacle republic in human history.
So far…
You’re gonna have to serve somebody, it may be the Devil or it may be the Lord, but you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
For me, until (or unless) humanity suddenly realizes some sort of weird Nirvana, I’ll hedge my bets on the continuation of nation states and will prefer serving the USA, which remains undefeated as the pinnacle republic in human history.
So far…
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:41 am to crossfire
Very good post crossfire.
The only thing I would add, when a good portion of those companies repatriated money with no tax penalty......they used the money to buy their own company stock versus building plants. Buy your own shares, less shares on the market, company has the same value, and the price of the stock goes up overnight. But more importantly the STOCK OPTIONS of the executives go up and they made bank, a lot of bank. And did nothing to help their company long term.
So this go round Trump said, I gave you the carrot and you ripped America off, here comes the fking stick. Apple is typical. I make a phone for a 100 bucks in China. On paper I transfer that asset to Ireland were I pay about 5% in tax and value it at 900 bucks. Then I ship the phone to US and sell for 1000. I gross 100 bucks, take out expenses for headquarters, marketing, and net about 25 cents and pay taxes on that. The 800 actual profit stays offshore and I continue to invest offshore year after year.
If you want to offshore thats fine, but dont put this American face on the company and hand out apple stickers for idiots to put on the back of their cars. Admit you are a foreign company and Benz and BMW who manufacture here are far more American.
The only thing I would add, when a good portion of those companies repatriated money with no tax penalty......they used the money to buy their own company stock versus building plants. Buy your own shares, less shares on the market, company has the same value, and the price of the stock goes up overnight. But more importantly the STOCK OPTIONS of the executives go up and they made bank, a lot of bank. And did nothing to help their company long term.
So this go round Trump said, I gave you the carrot and you ripped America off, here comes the fking stick. Apple is typical. I make a phone for a 100 bucks in China. On paper I transfer that asset to Ireland were I pay about 5% in tax and value it at 900 bucks. Then I ship the phone to US and sell for 1000. I gross 100 bucks, take out expenses for headquarters, marketing, and net about 25 cents and pay taxes on that. The 800 actual profit stays offshore and I continue to invest offshore year after year.
If you want to offshore thats fine, but dont put this American face on the company and hand out apple stickers for idiots to put on the back of their cars. Admit you are a foreign company and Benz and BMW who manufacture here are far more American.
This post was edited on 12/4/24 at 6:03 am
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:54 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
The same applies for owners of the business. And COL would be a lot lower if workers would just accept a lower standard of living. Why won't they? Why are they so greedy? If it's good enough for Indians, isn't it good enough fo
FYI it's not just about how much an American worker gets paid but how much it cost to employ them. There are so many regulations, benefits and taxes just to employ one person that you can hire 4 in India for the same price
Why can't we do away with employment taxes to encourage companies to hire Americans?
Alos cut some of the red tape and litigation concerns. HR shouldn't even be a thing but companies are threatened left and right with litigation over something as simple as being able to fire someone. End that and it further reduces cost.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 5:57 am to RemouladeSawce
quote:
This is a fiscal-health agnostic trend that isn’t going away no matter how business-friendly the government is
Having one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world is not agnostic, its a fact. Having redundant financial regulations like Dodd Frank adds millions in costs. The myriad of regulations and policies overlapping several agencies which each require verification, on their own timeline, adds costs and time.
The CHIPS act offers billions in incentives to build and even so some companies like Intel said go fck yourself because it was so tied to DEI and other nonsense it was not worth it.
When businessmen like Trump, VIVek, And Elon say its killing us, that aint agnostic thats a fact.
Posted on 12/4/24 at 6:02 am to JesusSaves777
quote:Well, it's tough because that greed is 'move to another country starving for jobs' or 'pay almost that much in taxes and worker benefits such as the ALWAYS rising health care, workmans comp claims, etc.'
The insatiable greed of these people astounds me. These tightfisted hucksters are committing economic treason against the very nation that made them great.
We have to arrest the rising costs of business.
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