re: Christians: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love“

Been a while. Love is over time to roll again.

The Crusades (1096–1291) were a series of religious and military campaigns authorized by the Catholic Church to reclaim the Holy Land, specifically Jerusalem, from Muslim control.

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Thats exactly what Paul was getting onto the Galatians about. They had been told they had to believe in Jesus and keep the law.

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He called them “Foolish Galatians” in his letter for wanting to keep the Jewish law to follow the Jewish messiah… the one who told his disciples that he didn’t come to abolish the law, and that they must comply with every stroke and dot of the law, and be better at following the law than the Pharisees. It was a rebuke of Paul’s message when Jesus said whoever tells others not to follow the Jewish law would be least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17+)

Jesus goes on and on and says it’s not good enough just to not murder… don’t even get angry at anyone. It’s not good enough not to commit adultery, but don’t even look at a woman with lust, and so on.

Obviously, Christianity was an offshoot of Judaism, and there were circulating traditions that said followers of Jesus must follow the Jewish law and be Jewish. Paul taught the exact opposite. Whoever wrote “Matthew” wrote the end of chapter 5 (decades after Paul died) specifically to rebuke Paul’s ideas by putting his own ideas and traditions of having to follow the Jewish law directly into the mouth of the Jewish messiah.

Jesus came to fulfill the law, which he did, and then he paid the penalty on our behalf so we don't have to. He kept the law. That is what he meant when he said he came to uphold the law. Now we just have to believe that he did that for us and paid for all of our sins. Past, present and future. There is no amount of lawkeeping we can do now to add to what he accomplished on our behalf. The gospel is simple. Man is the one that has made it confusing.

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Jesus came to fulfill the law, which he did, and then he paid the penalty on our behalf so we don't have to. He kept the law. That is what he meant when he said he came to uphold the law. Now we just have to believe that he did that for us and paid for all of our sins. Past, present and future. There is no amount of lawkeeping we can do now to add to what he accomplished on our behalf. The gospel is simple. Man is the one that has made it confusing.

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Since you never read Matthew, let me post an excerpt of Chapter 5 for you.

Study it carefully:

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17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

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That part I bolded - that’s you. You will be least. Do you want to be least?

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You arent unconvinced. There's plenty of men far more intellectually capable than you or I will ever be that believed in God. You are just choosing to reject God. Thats your decision, its an unwise one

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While this is the correct answer, it still surprises me that anyone will engage this poster in these types of discussions.

Exactly what does he have to do to demonstrate that he is not discussing in good faith before y'all stop enabling him here?

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Jesus loves everyone - and he showed support for those that society had outcast.

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That is incorrect.

Jesus reached out to those on the margins, yes. But not to "show them support." To call them to repentance and salvation.

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Jesus denounced those who were not practicing love but were using religion to exploit others.

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Again, incorrect.

Jesus denounced those who used their position as religious leaders to exalt themselves above the Law.

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Describing it as a "den of robbers" (Matthew 21:13), Jesus targeted the exploitation of worshippers, particularly the poor.

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You forgot something from that analysis. The full quote is: "The Scriptures declare, 'My Temple will be called a house of prayer,' but you have turned it into a den of thieves!”

The moral emphasis was on the desecration of the Temple. Which means that God's authority was the motivator, not the exploitation of the poor.

Not that Jesus didn't have compassion for the people; He did.

But again, the first commandment is love the Lord thy God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.

The second is love thy neighbor as thyself.

And the reason they are ordered that way is clear in reading the Old Testament. We are commanded to help those who can't help themselves because God first helped us.

It's to honor God. You can't quote anything Jesus said about helping others without acknowledging that.

There are a lot of false prophets who proclaim to be Christians that twist the gospel to their own desires and are rotten to the core.

Because it’s overly simplistic and meant to be a feel good slogan, not actual truth. Too much love can be a bad thing, and hatred of certain things is necessary for a healthy sense of morality. I’m all for spreading the gospel, but the message seems shallow and makes me question what the motive actually is.

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You arent unconvinced.

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Your dogma is strong, but it is wrong.

Just as you are unconvinced that Ra, Shemesh, Helios, or the deity with whom Jacob wrestled carries the sun across the sky each day, I am unconvinced. You have the perfect analogy there, but I’m not sure you will understand it or accept it.

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There's plenty of men far more intellectually capable than you or I will ever be that believed in God

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Generally speaking, it is factual that there is a correlation that higher IQ is associated with higher rates of atheism. That doesn’t mean there aren’t intelligent believers… there are, but they’re not nearly as intelligent as the most intelligent atheists.

And there aren’t plenty of men more intellectually capable than me. I’m pretty close to the 99.9th percentile, about 3 standard deviations above the mean IQ for caucasians. I’m no dummy. I’ve got to attend a meeting or conference with others in my line of work to not be the smartest guy in the room. I understand what it is like to not be convinced of something.

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You are just choosing to reject God.

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I’ve said this many times. I cannot reject something that I am unconvinced exists.

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Thats your decision, its an unwise one

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It’s not my decision. There is no free will on what someone determines to be convincing. I cannot choose to believe the moon is made of cheese just because I’d like to believe it. Your assertion that is a decision is incorrect, and baseless.

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I want to jump in here because I don’t think the only two options are “you agree with us” or “you secretly know and are rebelling.”

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To many on this site, those are the only two options. It’s sad that they cannot think clearly and rationally (my opinion - if they did think rationally, they wouldn’t be a believing Christian).

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At least from my perspective, I don’t assume you’re lying about being unconvinced

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Thank you - that is refreshing.

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I also don’t assume Jews or Muslims secretly believe Jesus is Lord and are consciously choosing hellfire.

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That is what many on this site believe - that they are “choosing” hellfire. When I’ve asked “how does that make sense?” The replies have been ad hominem attacks. What do you think they believe is the motivation for “rejecting the Truth” and receiving a punishment of eternal conscious torment? Eternity is a long time.

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You’re right that Christians reject Zeus or Vishnu without feeling like we’re rebelling against something we secretly know is true. So it’s fair to say someone can be genuinely unconvinced.

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Thank you. I don’t know what the secret is though to get some of the fervent believers to understand it though. I give them analogies and examples of them rejecting the plethora of other imaginary deities, and I’m just like them except for me it’s one more deity.

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The disagreement isn’t “you’re lying.” It’s that we evaluate the claims about Jesus differently. That’s a substantive disagreement, not a moral accusation.

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Bravo!