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Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:33 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.
Yes. I share pretty generously with people in my friend group, my family or my faith community. I have a different standard for dudes panhandling on the street.
Do you?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:35 pm to 5WFSHR
I certainly don't think He cares if you're R or D
I think He probably cares if you advocate for killing life made in His image, and especially so when you do so under the banner of the cross.
I think He probably cares if you advocate for killing life made in His image, and especially so when you do so under the banner of the cross.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:43 pm to BugAC
quote:
. You are making an assumption because you don't like Trump,
No I'm basing it off his behavior/status.
Has nothing to do with if I like him or not.
quote:
I can't tell you if he's going to Heaven or hell. No one can.
I said I would bet. That doesn't mean that I know, or implied I know for sure, but it's much more likely to me than not, based on evidence we have.
quote:
Maybe it's better if you give me the specific sin you believe he has committed and his continued non-repentence.
He's rich and communicates with utter vitriol. Just to give 2 examples of things that we should all agree on re: Trump
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:43 pm to Pettifogger
Yea, spiritual pride is a monster. People saying that others have to “follow them to a T or else” can end up in trouble. God is gracious and merciful. We all mess up.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:45 pm to Festus
quote:
Most conservatives deeply believe in compassion and caring for others needs. They just don't want it forced upon people, and done by the government. They want to do it voluntarily, and individually. And through churches, which actually do a great job of it.
Which incidentally, is EXACTLY what Jesus preached. Show me one scripture where Jesus taught that the government should be responsible for caring for the needs of others.
You do realize this is exactly my argument, right?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:47 pm to the808bass
quote:
Yes. I share pretty generously with people in my friend group, my family or my faith community. I have a different standard for dudes panhandling on the street.
Do you?
I do, but my giving/sharing isn't based in religion either way.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:57 pm to L.A.
My mother is Christian and I know she not only votes Democrat but votes quite liberal: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren etc. . .
For her, those are easy choices to make as a Christian.
The issues that are far and away most important to her are not “culture war” flashpoints--even if she's likely pretty conservative in her thinking about those -- but greed, poverty and a basic tenet of being open armed to those in need and to those who are not like you.
She has said many times that she finds the gap between rich and poor more anti-Christian than anything else the government can do anything about and expresses concern at how many Christians are willing to support political policies that she feels increase those divisions.
She thinks that the very first things a Christian does is to take the coat off your back to help the other. That’s first.
That’s her opinion but I fail to see how it it any “less” Christian than if one chooses something else they think Christ embodies to base their vote.
For her, those are easy choices to make as a Christian.
The issues that are far and away most important to her are not “culture war” flashpoints--even if she's likely pretty conservative in her thinking about those -- but greed, poverty and a basic tenet of being open armed to those in need and to those who are not like you.
She has said many times that she finds the gap between rich and poor more anti-Christian than anything else the government can do anything about and expresses concern at how many Christians are willing to support political policies that she feels increase those divisions.
She thinks that the very first things a Christian does is to take the coat off your back to help the other. That’s first.
That’s her opinion but I fail to see how it it any “less” Christian than if one chooses something else they think Christ embodies to base their vote.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:06 pm to wm72
These are hard to argue with because they often involve caricatures of the "other side" and very romanticized views of your own side. The right does that too, of course.
I think your mother is mostly wrong, but it's hard to approach because if she believes that safety nets as implemented in this country vs. capitalism as implemented in this country have resulted in the former being more helpful to most people than the latter - there just isn't anywhere to go. These are big, amorphous topics and while I think she can't win that argument, I'm probably not getting her to see it.
And of course that's before we get to notions of personal responsibility and upright living, etc.
Someone who looks at the GOP and says "As a Christian, I see the GOP being too concerned with business interests and often overlooking those in genuine need using bootstrap ideology, etc." but I just can't see how a sober-minded person looks at the "other side" and discerns that they're fairly and truthfully identifying the problems and working earnestly to fix them.
I think your mother is mostly wrong, but it's hard to approach because if she believes that safety nets as implemented in this country vs. capitalism as implemented in this country have resulted in the former being more helpful to most people than the latter - there just isn't anywhere to go. These are big, amorphous topics and while I think she can't win that argument, I'm probably not getting her to see it.
And of course that's before we get to notions of personal responsibility and upright living, etc.
Someone who looks at the GOP and says "As a Christian, I see the GOP being too concerned with business interests and often overlooking those in genuine need using bootstrap ideology, etc." but I just can't see how a sober-minded person looks at the "other side" and discerns that they're fairly and truthfully identifying the problems and working earnestly to fix them.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:13 pm to wm72
You should show this to your mother.
In the Bible, 2 Thessalonians 3:10 says, "If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat". This verse is part of a passage that warns believers against laziness and idleness, and is directed at those who refuse to work rather than those who are unable to. The verse is also interpreted to mean that people should earn their own living.
In the Bible, 2 Thessalonians 3:10 says, "If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat". This verse is part of a passage that warns believers against laziness and idleness, and is directed at those who refuse to work rather than those who are unable to. The verse is also interpreted to mean that people should earn their own living.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:19 pm to wm72
quote:
My mother is Christian and I know she not only votes Democrat but votes quite liberal: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren etc. . .
For her, those are easy choices to make as a Christian.
The issues that are far and away most important to her are not “culture war” flashpoints--even if she's likely pretty conservative in her thinking about those -- but greed, poverty and a basic tenet of being open armed to those in need and to those who are not like you.
She has said many times that she finds the gap between rich and poor more anti-Christian than anything else the government can do anything about and expresses concern at how many Christians are willing to support political policies that she feels increase those divisions.
She thinks that the very first things a Christian does is to take the coat off your back to help the other. That’s first.
That’s her opinion but I fail to see how it it any “less” Christian than if one chooses something else they think Christ embodies to base their vote.
I understand where your mom is coming from.
Here's my issue with her stance: How is it Christian to take money from the working class via govt taxes, by threat of punishment btw, and give it to other people?
You wrote this:
quote:
The issues that are far and away most important to her are...greed, poverty and a basic tenet of being open armed to those in need and to those who are not like you.
If she's giving her own money, food, and clothing away, I applaud her. She is Christian indeed. My wife and I donate every single week of the year to our church's ministry to the poor, in the form of cash, clothing, and food, AND we donate food every Monday to the local food bank. So she and I are on the same page.
But what gives her (or you, or me) the right to tell the govt to take money away from some people and give it to other people? What's Christian about that?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:28 pm to L.A.
quote:
Here's my issue with her stance: How is it Christian to take money from the working class via govt taxes, by threat of punishment btw, and give it to other people?
It's based in the same justification for all government action in this discussion: if people acted properly, government wouldn't have to step in to fix their pathologies.
Take abortion (since it's been brought up so many times). Assuming God sees that as a major sin, there is already an eternal punishment for that behavior. When we're discussing governmental action, we're discussing an Earthly punishment for that behavior. If we can imprison (or hell, kill) people for these perceived pathologies, I don't see why it's so foreign to understand how this system could apply to other pathologies associated with conservative policies (like wealth)
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's based in the same justification for all government action in this discussion:
You and I are having two different conversations.
You sound like you're justifying a theocracy. I'm trying to avoid one.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:39 pm to wm72
quote:
She has said many times that she finds the gap between rich and poor more anti-Christian than anything else the government can do anything about and expresses concern at how many Christians are willing to support political policies that she feels increase those divisions.
Then your mom doesn’t understand Christianity.
Giving someone material support, outside of literally keeping them alive, is one of the least important things you can do.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:51 pm to L.A.
quote:
But what gives her (or you, or me) the right to tell the govt to take money away from some people and give it to other people? What's Christian about that?
Frankly, she would say, or does say, that's exactly what the government does. Regardless of politics. Collect tax money and pay tax money out .
The only differences comes down to percentages, tax breaks and, again, she thinks this country continually does it in a way that stacks the deck against working people to the advantage of the already wealthy. That's why messages of a Sanders/Warren appeal to her.
I just mentioned it to make the point that being a Christian--since as far as putting her money, time, heart etc where her mouth is all her life for selfless causes, she's as fine of a Christian example as I can think of -- and supporting a certain political party is far from as cut and dry and this Kirk guy wants to make it. I would think that it's even in keeping with Christ's teachings to realize how there's not clear answers and it's probably better for Christians to not be cheerleaders on any political party.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:59 pm to L.A.
I know some of you will contort yourself into knots trying to imply that you can but you can’t be a Christian and support abortion, gay marriage, or transgender affirmative care.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 5:02 pm to wm72
quote:Of course it's what govt does. But what does that have to do with Christianity? What's Christian about forcibly taking money from a group of people that worked for the money and giving it to another group that didn't work for it?
Frankly, she would say, or does say, that's exactly what the government does. Regardless of politics. Collect tax money and pay tax money out .
You mom and I agree on what Christians are supposed to do. Sounds like we disagree on whether or not govts are supposed to redistribute wealth based on theological suppositions. I am a strong advocate for the separation of church and state. It's better for the state and it's better for the church.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 5:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I do, but my giving/sharing isn't based in religion either way.
It’s based on your personal beliefs, right? How is that different?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 5:26 pm to L.A.
There is a large percentage of dem. Voters who I think really are devout Christians. They are low information when it comes to politics though, and simply here Trump is mean and doesn’t care about others. They get there little bit of info from family and others who lead them the other direction.
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