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Started By
Message
re: Charlie Kirk: You Cannot Be a Christian and Vote Democrat
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:11 pm to the808bass
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:11 pm to the808bass
quote:
Romans 13:2
2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
A specific response to another question I answered, but I will give you this one. Now the implications...we'll wait for another example.
0
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:12 pm to Flats
quote:
Because you're deliberately drawing as small a circle as possible around "religion"
Well we are discussing Christianity specifically, as that's what Kirk used.
This isn't a discussion of "religion". It's one of Christianity.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:12 pm to BugAC
I would agree that government is not God. So stop trying to get him to run it. You may find the results less than desirable. God would only broker absolutes and dissent could not be possible. This is God we are talking about.
Probably why he only rules absolutely in heaven
Probably why he only rules absolutely in heaven
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:13 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
But is someone suggesting that?
You are the one who asked
quote:
Are you suggesting that Jesus of Nazareth is on-board with the Democrats' agenda?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:14 pm to BugAC
quote:
The Bible isn't teaching politics. It doesn't teach government.
God's Word has much to say about nations and how they conduct their affairs.
Politics matter because politics affect people - people made in the image of God, people whom God loves, and people for whom Jesus died.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:14 pm to BugAC
FWIW, i don't think any one person can tell another person "you can't be Christian". That in and of itself is not Christian. Anyone can receive God's grace who seeks it. However, the Democrat party isn't wading in the same pool as Christianity. There are many policies that explicitly goes against God and his teachings. Abortion, transgenders, support for NAMBLA and other organizations. While not every Democrat may support those specific issues, the party surely does. THerefore, it's not so much of a stretch to pose the question, can you be a Christian and support the actions that goes against Christ? Falling to sin via mistakes or temptation is one thing, and you can seek forgiveness for that. Actively promoting and persuading others to expand those acts is something I couldn't do in good conscious as a Christian and Catholic.
thank you for expounding upon what I tried to convey.
thank you for expounding upon what I tried to convey.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Well we are discussing Christianity specifically, as that's what Kirk used.
Kirk surely can't make this judgement, nor can anyone else. I think his phrasing could be better.
"Can you be Christian and support Democrat policies?" I think this is more appropriate and it's up to the individual to examine their conscience and ask themselves "do Democrat policies go against God's word? And if so, what does that say for me, if i cast my vote for those policies?"
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:16 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This isn't a discussion of "religion". It's one of Christianity.
It doesn't matter which religion you use, claims like this are comically wrong.
quote:
The fact that the person is allowed to ignore parts of Christianity, by default, makes it not a religious question.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:16 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
God's Word has much to say about nations and how they conduct their affairs.
Old Testament or New?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:16 pm to BugAC
quote:
Liberals always take that passage as a justification for taxes.
Or strangely, in the case of liberal SFP, justification of Democrat = Good and Republican = Evil.
Not sure why he would use that scripture to make his point. It has absolutely nothing to do with what he is arguing.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:16 pm to L.A.
Christians, Catholics, Jews... sorry, but if you're a true believer in any of those faiths you're cheating if you vote Dem.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:17 pm to Flats
quote:
claims like this are comically wrong.
You need to go back in the thread.
This isn't some vague discussion of unclear topics. There was a specific argument to ignore parts of Christianity (specific ones that had been listed in the discussion).
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:18 pm to Festus
quote:
justification of Democrat = Good and Republican = Evil.
Literally never did that.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Old Testament or New?
Both
Jesus commended every word of OT Scripture and commissioned every word of NT Scripture.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:19 pm to BugAC
quote:
"Can you be Christian and support Democrat policies?" I think this is more appropriate and it's up to the individual to examine their conscience and ask themselves "do Democrat policies go against God's word? And if so, what does that say for me, if i cast my vote for those policies?"
I don't disagree, but it is the same for either. It gets even worse if you turn it to the individual and look at Trump personally.
As I said earlier, framing and curation will allow people to justify either party is "in" or "out"
This post was edited on 8/7/24 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Literally never did that.
Agree to disagree.
But can you at least be genuine enough to admit that the meaning of that scripture was Jesus speaking to paying taxes vs. tithing, and has absolutely nothing to do with whatever political argument you're trying to make?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't disagree, but it is the same for either.
Elaborate. Maybe i'm not aware, but what policies of the Republican party are directly opposing God?
quote:
It gets even worse if you turn it to the individual and look at Trump personally.
Actually, not at all. Because man can be forgiven of their sins, as long as you seek forgiveness and repent.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:24 pm to Festus
quote:
Agree to disagree.
There is no maybe.
I even made it clear when I was giving examples of what "they" argue.
quote:
But can you at least be genuine enough to admit that the meaning of that scripture was Jesus speaking to paying taxes vs. tithing, and has absolutely nothing to do with whatever political argument you're trying to make?
This isn't my unique interpretation
There's even an entire subsection on the clause's Wiki page
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:26 pm to BugAC
quote:
Maybe i'm not aware, but what policies of the Republican party are directly opposing God?
When I started doing this earlier ITT, I was told not to look at those specific clauses and look at the big picture.
Which is how we went down the digression on curating the Bible for this discussion.
quote:
Because man can be forgiven of their sins, as long as you seek forgiveness and repent.
I'll be willing to bet real money as of this post that has not occurred.
I'd wager a great deal if Trump died today, and Christianity is real, Trump goes straight to hell.
CAN he be saved? Sure. IS he currently? No fricking way
Posted on 8/7/24 at 1:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I was told not to look at those specific clauses and look at the big picture.
I haven't followed the entire thread, what are you referring to. I'm not aware of a specific policy by the Republicans that advocates that I sin. There are several Democrat policies that do, and i don't think we really disagree about those. What Republican policies are you referring?
quote:
I'll be willing to bet real money as of this post that has not occurred.
I'd wager a great deal if Trump died today, and Christianity is real, Trump goes straight to hell.
Then you are no less a fool than Kirk. You are making an assumption because you don't like Trump, it appears. Do you know Trump's prayers? I sure don't. I can't tell you if he's going to Heaven or hell. No one can.
Maybe it's better if you give me the specific sin you believe he has committed and his continued non-repentence. Even then you can't make those statements.
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