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2
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:13 am to 4cubbies
quote:Yes, certainly. Capitalism isn't dehumanizing in itself. Human beings cooperate for the benefit of others in capitalism, at least in theory. This can be abused, certainly, but it doesn't have to be abusive. When people agree to trade their labor for money, that isn't immoral or dehumanizing necessarily.
Capitalism treats humans as a means to an end (profit), so can any human be dignified when they are essentially dehumanized by our economic system?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:13 am to Harry Boutte
quote:
The concentration of capital can be just as harmful to a society as the distribution of capital.
Then stop with the protectionism and bailing out massive corporations.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:13 am to 4cubbies
You act like people are forced to work, forced to create, forced to sell, forced to buy. All of these are free acts of people who make their own choices.
Some make good choices, work hard, build wealth, and take care of their families.
Some make bad choices, don't provide value, only consume, and live in bad circumstances because of it.
It's the most dignified system in the history of mankind, but it requires personal responsibility, something it seems a percentage of the population isn't capable of.
Some make good choices, work hard, build wealth, and take care of their families.
Some make bad choices, don't provide value, only consume, and live in bad circumstances because of it.
It's the most dignified system in the history of mankind, but it requires personal responsibility, something it seems a percentage of the population isn't capable of.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:13 am to FooManChoo
quote:
This can be abused, certainly, but it doesn't have to be abusive. When people agree to trade their labor for money, that isn't immoral or dehumanizing necessarily.
Correct. This is the "even water can kill you" stuff.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:14 am to YouKnowImRight
quote:
It's the most dignified system in the history of mankind,
This seems like a M/F thing.
Women are dignified by the views of other people. Men are dignified with their own accomplishments.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:16 am to 4cubbies
Certainly more dignified than just lining everyone up against a wall and shooting them.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:16 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Women are dignified by the views of other people
And quite a few are getting wealthy off how they're viewed...if you catch my drift. If they dont' have dignity, it's because they sacrificed it for wealth.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:16 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
This seems like a M/F thing.
Women are dignified by the views of other people. Men are dignified with their own accomplishments.
It's more a trait of evolutionary psychology. Male humans evolved to be more individualistic and female humans evolved to work more in groups.
That explains the paradigm I explained earlier in how the more feminine view of capitalism involves these large-scale forces/institutions.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:16 am to RogerTheShrubber
Dignity is often achieved through struggle and initial failure.
ETA, I could argue MOST often, but I don't feel I need to go that far.
ETA, I could argue MOST often, but I don't feel I need to go that far.
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 10:18 am
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:17 am to HottyToddy7
quote:
Did human dignity exist before Capitalism?
I think dignity exists in capitalism. It just is ignored.
My teacher argued that dignity is distributed by society based on capitalist values.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:17 am to 4cubbies
Capitalism is nothing more than the freedom to buy, sell, or trade with whoever you want.
It has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system by far.
The system that dehumanizes people is socialism. The government or oligarchy will decide what your job is, how much you make, how much food you’re allowed to have, etc. Socialism is complete government control.
It has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system by far.
The system that dehumanizes people is socialism. The government or oligarchy will decide what your job is, how much you make, how much food you’re allowed to have, etc. Socialism is complete government control.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:18 am to 4cubbies
quote:
dignity is distributed by society based on capitalist values.
This professor doesn't interact with lower class people in real life.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:18 am to 4cubbies
Dignity is in the eye of the beholder. When you insist on other people accepting your definition of dignity you are the one dehumanizing them.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:19 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Can dignity exist in a capitalist society?
Well I know it doesn’t exist in a socialist society. We’ve got incredible evidence of that.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:19 am to 4cubbies
It is much more dehumanizing to depend on others than to do for yourself. Also economics are just one part of human society, if your whole life revolves around money then there is no dignity in that. But humans are nuanced creatures, that are capable of pursuing diverse interests and relationships.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:19 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I think dignity exists in capitalism. It just is ignored.
This statement strikes me as nothing but a function of perception.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:20 am to 4cubbies
quote:
My teacher argued that dignity is distributed by society based on capitalist values.
My argument is dignity is an emotional construct that only in a capitalistic society do humans have the time and energy to worry about it. Before Capitalism, survival was the only goal.
So for people to argue that capitalism is bad because humans aren't dignified, when dignity didn't exist before Capitalism is just a dumb argument.
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 10:21 am
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:22 am to HottyToddy7
quote:
My argument is dignity is an emotional construct that only in a capitalistic society to humans have the time and energy to worry about it. Before Capitalism, survival was the only goal.
This is actually a very good point.
"Dignity" was a concept the Church spoke of (in a language the masses could not understand). This actually really ties into old school Christianity also (and Jesus's lessons about dignity within this older societal paradigm).
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:23 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Sounds like you’re describing Congress.
This isn’t the gotcha you think it is if that’s what you’re going for. I’m a firm believer that our legislative branch is full of people who have adopted the globalist socialist society march towards the Marxism that places them permanently at the top of the food chain.
Crony capitalism is not much different than a socialized industry or the government owning means of production.
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