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re: Can dignity exist in a capitalist society?

Posted on 12/6/24 at 11:58 am to
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
109591 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 11:58 am to
Seems one of the oddest things in the world to specifically tie to "capitalist society."
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62509 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

I decide my dignity.
Yep. The OP, who decries "capitalism", seems to define their dignity and humanity in terms of what one person has relative to other people. That's 100% pure materialism.

My family grew up poor. My grandparents even poorer. I never considered that undignified or dehumanizing. Never will.
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 12:02 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135425 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

I’m sure he feels like he has dignity.
Don't be.
It's a virtual certainty he sees many acquaintances with lower skillsets (in his assessment) outperforming him. He's jealous. He covets their capitalist social valuation. Jealousy, coveting ... those are undignified behaviors.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
125230 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:03 pm to
Consistently the shittiest poster in a sea of shite posters.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62509 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

The professor believes this also applies to capitalism.
The only thing more exploitive than socialism is slavery. Which socialism inevitebly devolves into, since the talented and skilled have to submit to their assets being stolen.
Posted by scottydoesntknow
Member since Nov 2023
9794 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

My teacher argued that dignity is distributed by society based on capitalist values.


The problem with the vast majority of teachers is they have never really had to earn a dollar from a customer that has. They follow precise directions down an already constructed lane with bumpers on both sides. Their ultimate goal is reaching a point where no matter how terrible their product becomes, they cannot be denied their heavily government subsidized paycheck
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135425 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

Inmates are used as cheap/free labor.
Inmates are in that situation for a reason. The topic of dignity during incarceration is a different discussion.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62509 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

Dignity is the state of being worthy of honor or respect, but that state begins within the Self then extends outward to create the societal view (if it's agreed upon by enough of society).
Saved in my history file.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135425 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

Its protectionism, which hinders innovation.
Or a tool to tear down protectionism, which invites innovation.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62509 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

It's a virtual certainty he sees many acquaintances with lower skillsets (in his assessment) outperforming him. He's jealous. He covets their capitalist social valuation. Jealousy, coveting ... those are undignified behaviors.
$100 says he considers himself "working class", but has never done any sort of labor work.
Posted by scottydoesntknow
Member since Nov 2023
9794 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

In a large twist of irony, this is how the Left/Socialists have tried to spin Jesus's teaching into Leftism, tainted by their analysis of the word within the society built by capitalism that permitted the societal abundance to allow them the ability and opportunity to conceptualize these things.


You are a major league douche/troll but ill give you credit when you make a good point. This is one of them
Posted by MemphisGuy
Germantown, TN
Member since Nov 2023
13631 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

The whole point of the idiotic thread was a new and exciting angle for her drivel concerning jailed people. that's all.


I'm fairly confident that she believes that no one should be incarcerated, no matter the crime. Well, maybe murderers, depending on who and how they kill. And that sentence should never be very lengthy. Also... don't even THINK about cash bail. That's likely a big no-no in her book. Why, these poor, unfortunate people can't afford to post their bail. Why should they be punished for that?

It's people like her who turn our criminal justice system into the absolute joke that it is today and turn our streets into unsafe warzones. And doesn't even blink an eye about it.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57851 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

Right. But we live in a capitalist society. Capitalism drives pretty much every aspect of our society.


And? What I mean by that is our living in a capitalist(ish) society doesn't change that dignity originates within the Self.

One of the greatest things about capitalism is that it's highly malleable, moreso than any other economic form (which becomes more true the larger the economy and/or society becomes). If society dictates that dignity of the consumer is a core principle, then the capitalist society adopts it to whatever extent the society demands.

In any other economic system (to varying degrees), the presiding authority (ie: government) decides what dignity means and whether the economic system even cares about it.

Was there dignity in the policies of Communist Russia which led to the starvation of millions?

Is there dignity in an economic system which first mandates slavish devotion to a political party as we see in China?

Where's the dignity in India's socialist economic system with its healthcare system being among the worst in the world? LINK

To get a little more generalized, where is the dignity in an economic system which uses government force to mandate what workers do and can own versus one which is built on the idea of the members of its society creating as much or as little success as their abilities allow and in whatever industry they desire?
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 12:21 pm
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57851 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

Inmates are used as cheap/free labor.


Not all of them, it can vary. More importantly though, in those instances where they are forced (there are some voluntary programs) it's considered to be part of their payment back to society for the crime(s) they committed.
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61360 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:21 pm to
The problem with every economic system has less to do with the economic system in place as it does the human being and their godless condition that drives them to not care about other human beings. It’s a heart problem, not an economic one.

Capitalism is fine, matter of fact it’s more than fine. It’s exceptional, but what we are right now is less capitalist, as in giving people the opportunity to better their economic station through capitalism, as it is corporatism, which drives out competition through corrupt finance, government, and politicians. This does anything but embrace the benefits of true capitalism. We can certainly return to that, but it’s going to take us to DOGE their butts out of power in DC to do so

And if you think socialism or communism, or any other ism is going to care about humanity, you are willfully ignorant as they’ve all exploited human beings as much, and in most cases, much more so than capitalism ever has.

If you’re honestly looking for an answer to this, you need to crack the Bible. If not, then keep looking for some magic answer from mankind who constantly disappoints because it’s man that’s the root problem of all of this.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465427 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

It seems to me sort an odd thing to tie to that.


quote:

Inmates are used as cheap/free labor.



It gets even more odd and somehow worse with her response here
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295335 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

Its protectionism, which hinders innovation.
Or a tool to tear down protectionism,


Good luck with that.

You'll need to subsidize these industries forever, or they'll leave.
Posted by olgoi khorkhoi
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
16307 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:24 pm to
Capitalism doesn't "treat" humans any which way. People treat people like a means to an and or with respect.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295335 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

focus is on incarcerated and formerly incarcerated people.


Imprisoned by the State for their own misdeeds, blames Capitalism for their lack of self worth.

Posted by Mr. Misanthrope
Cloud 8
Member since Nov 2012
6334 posts
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:25 pm to
Yes. It’s the only system that’s going to allow for individual efforts to be incentivized and rewarded. There is dignity in productive work that benefits the individual, the family that depends on the individual, the individual’s employer and co-workers, and society and the culture at large.


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