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Can anyone defend being a libertarian anymore?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:43 am
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:43 am
I don’t say this with contempt, I considered myself loosely libertarian for years, but a while back I just couldn’t keep rationalizing the lie of it all.
Libertarians entire premise is based around a free market and marketplace of ideas and the best choices winning out when government stays out of things. A weakness of this position has always been foreign powers manipulating the market and creating artificial factors that influence the market as a whole.
Even with this in mind, we always took the US economy as at least more so approaching a free capitalist system. So people thought we could make it better with more libertarian influence.
With recent revelations, it appears our state funded influence on the global market is the most artificial of all actors. No one really has any idea what market forces are real right now and what the outcomes over the past few decades would have been with a more organic system. The US economy, which the libertarians view far more favorably than the other world powers, was a carefully constructed charade requiring countless levers of statecraft.
So as a libertarian you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. In principle you have to be against all of these US gov actions abroad, but if we eliminate these things and pivoted to more of a true free market we would quickly be devoured by our enemies.
I’m not even getting into the morality and responsibility arguments yet, but since economics is the god of the libertarian, I don’t see how even that can be defended at this point.
Libertarians entire premise is based around a free market and marketplace of ideas and the best choices winning out when government stays out of things. A weakness of this position has always been foreign powers manipulating the market and creating artificial factors that influence the market as a whole.
Even with this in mind, we always took the US economy as at least more so approaching a free capitalist system. So people thought we could make it better with more libertarian influence.
With recent revelations, it appears our state funded influence on the global market is the most artificial of all actors. No one really has any idea what market forces are real right now and what the outcomes over the past few decades would have been with a more organic system. The US economy, which the libertarians view far more favorably than the other world powers, was a carefully constructed charade requiring countless levers of statecraft.
So as a libertarian you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. In principle you have to be against all of these US gov actions abroad, but if we eliminate these things and pivoted to more of a true free market we would quickly be devoured by our enemies.
I’m not even getting into the morality and responsibility arguments yet, but since economics is the god of the libertarian, I don’t see how even that can be defended at this point.
47
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:44 am to OBReb6
There’s a high correlation between libertarian beliefs and anime fandom
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:46 am to OBReb6
Don't confuse libertarian ideas with the Libertarian Party.
They are a bunch of moonbats starved for attention.
They are a bunch of moonbats starved for attention.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:47 am to OBReb6
Big L libertarians are weird af. They will never be taken seriously.
I consider myself conservative with a libertarian streak. I am for personal responsibility and against neo-cons and their endless wars but Im not voting for Vermin Supreme and his band of moonbats.
I consider myself conservative with a libertarian streak. I am for personal responsibility and against neo-cons and their endless wars but Im not voting for Vermin Supreme and his band of moonbats.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 10:48 am
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:47 am to TrueTiger
Ron Paul disassociated himself with the party then it went to hell
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:47 am to TrueTiger
I don’t think either one of them can be defended
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:51 am to OBReb6
You post this while it’s being revealed that both republicans and democrats are robbing us blind via a massive, over-bloated leviathan bureaucracy?
Not saying the Libertarian party is the bees-knees but if this country voted like libertarians this country wouldn’t have nearly the problems it does.
Not saying the Libertarian party is the bees-knees but if this country voted like libertarians this country wouldn’t have nearly the problems it does.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:51 am to OBReb6
One can be philosophically libertarian, but it only takes the tiniest modicum of sense and understanding to realize accepting nothing but an absolute strict adherence to such in every situation without compromise has never and will never really actually advance your purported principles. At this point, I’m convinced the chest thumping ‘Im a libertarian!’ people really have no such interest and are nothing but ‘look at me!”
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:53 am to OBReb6
Trump's current party is closer to the Libertarians than GOP of yesterday.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 10:54 am to OBReb6
quote:Libertarianism is based on the Non-Aggression Principle and private property rights. These principals just happen to align with a free market structure better than any other economic system.
Libertarians entire premise is based around a free market and marketplace of ideas and the best choices winning out when government stays out of things.
quote:Libertarians would be against this so I'm not sure I get your point.
A weakness of this position has always been foreign powers manipulating the market and creating artificial factors that influence the market as a whole.
quote:Libertarians would not view the US government as favorably as you.
The US economy, which the libertarians view far more favorably than the other world powers, was a carefully constructed charade requiring countless levers of statecraft.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:02 am to TrueTiger
quote:
Don't confuse libertarian ideas with the Libertarian Party. They are a bunch of moonbats starved for attention.
The problem with big L is 'opportunism.' When Harry Browne ran for President it was because he was an actual libertarian thinker. After he died you started to get republicans who saw no future in moving up the ladder to a GOP candidate for President so they hopped into the L party. Think Bob Barr. The Green party had the same issues. Ralph Nader was their nominee. His fame was consumer vs. business, not the environment.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 11:04 am
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:04 am to Robin Masters
quote:
You post this while it’s being revealed that both republicans and democrats are robbing us blind via a massive, over-bloated leviathan bureaucracy?
The bureaucracy obviously needs to be gutted massively, but none of us have any idea how much of what’s been robbed from us is even real. Every trade relationship is influenced by state sponsored soft power on the ground abroad.
quote:
Not saying the Libertarian party is the bees-knees but if this country voted like libertarians this country wouldn’t have nearly the problems it does.
It might be better, but there’s no way to be sure with the economics because we don’t have an accurate frame of reference for what the real economy looks like.
And libertarians have consistently proven to be cowards in the face of real problems, like covid, because they aren’t willing to use force against organized threats.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:04 am to The Scofflaw
quote:
Trump's current party is closer to the Libertarians than GOP of yesterday.
Tariffs aren’t libertarian, locked down border isn’t libertarian
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:05 am to Zach
I am a fiscal conservative and a social moderate
Not sure where that fits but no a single democrat policy is of any value
Not sure where that fits but no a single democrat policy is of any value
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:09 am to LSUnKaty
quote:
Libertarianism is based on the Non-Aggression Principle and private property rights. These principals just happen to align with a free market structure better than any other economic system.
Non aggression principle is meaningless if you don’t have everyone you are in contact with agreeing with the same principle. If you use force only as a defense mechanism you are always reacting and never proactive, and thus always on your heels.
quote:
Libertarians would be against this so I'm not sure I get your point.
Against it how? By condemning it? What difference does that make and what point are you making? I’m saying that is the world you have to deal with.
quote:
Libertarians would not view the US government as favorably as you.
I specifically said more favorably than other world powers. Do you view China more favorably? What about Russia? The EU? What about Brazil or Saudi Arabia or India? Argentina isn’t a power, and it’s yet to be seen how much they can actually support themselves.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:09 am to OBReb6
I’m not saying libertarianism is the solution to all our problems but it just seems like odd timing for your post considering what Dems and Republicans have been up to the last 20 years.
To your point about Covid, if the country had more libertarian thinkers in government it likely never would have happened.
To your point about Covid, if the country had more libertarian thinkers in government it likely never would have happened.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:10 am to OBReb6
quote:
Libertarians entire premise is based around a free market and marketplace of ideas and the best choices winning out when government stays out of things.
The govt fricked that up because people like you crave security over liberty.
We dont have free markets, the world would be 100x better if we did and you statists would find your own king to rule you.
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:11 am to OBReb6
quote:
Libertarians entire premise is based around a free market and marketplace of ideas and the best choices winning out when government stays out of things. A weakness of this position has always been foreign powers manipulating the market and creating artificial factors that influence the market as a whole.
The libertarian position never said to turn a blind eye to malicious activity. I get the criticism of the "wide open" libertarian approach, but they never said to disregard malice.
quote:
it appears our state funded influence on the global market is the most artificial of all actors.
The state funded influence has done a lot of damage to other nations, our own nation, and it's been opposed by libertarians more than any other group.
quote:
So as a libertarian you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. In principle you have to be against all of these US gov actions abroad, but if we eliminate these things and pivoted to more of a true free market we would quickly be devoured by our enemies.
Where is the data to support this? Was the US on the brink of collapse previously when we had a much freer open market and less state funded influence?
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:11 am to OBReb6
quote:They are when he wants to replace income taxes with them
Tariffs aren’t libertarian
quote:Libertarians aren't for no borders. Borderless states are anarcho-capitalism.
locked down border isn’t libertarian
Posted on 2/13/25 at 11:13 am to OBReb6
Libertarianism is like free trade.
It only works if everyone follows the same rules.
It’s a superior theory but goes against human nature and thus is not realistic
It only works if everyone follows the same rules.
It’s a superior theory but goes against human nature and thus is not realistic
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