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Posted on 3/5/22 at 6:19 am to TrueTiger
quote:
We never viewed them as reliable NATO material and did'nt want them.
quote:
NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations. We welcome the democratic reforms in Ukraine and Georgia and look forward to free and fair parliamentary elections in Georgia in May. Membership Action Plan (MAP) is the next step for Ukraine and Georgia on their direct way to membership. Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAP. Therefore we will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their MAP applications. We have asked Foreign Ministers to make a first assessment of progress at their December 2008 meeting. Foreign Ministers have the authority to decide on the MAP applications of Ukraine and Georgia.
Bucharest Summit Declaration
03 Apr. 2008
----
quote:Correct!
We never viewed them as reliable NATO material and did'nt want them.
All we had to do is say that to Russia and they relax.
In fact, if we'd say that right now, this war would quickly reach a negotiated end.
I don't know that Russia would give back captured territory, but I don't know that they'd still feel need to sack the Ukrainian government either.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 6:32 am to NC_Tigah
You clearly didn't listen to Putin's speech on day one of this war. He denied Ukraine's right to exist to go along with the other eastern European countries that became independent after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
This isn't just about NATO. This is Putin's desire to return Russia to its pre-1991 borders.
This isn't just about NATO. This is Putin's desire to return Russia to its pre-1991 borders.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 6:45 am to Ag Zwin
Let’s not pretend the Us’s incompetent foreign policy started with Biden and Harris. Though it is very unsettling the future of every life in our country is in their hands right now.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 6:53 am to RiverCityTider
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/6/22 at 6:53 am
Posted on 3/5/22 at 7:05 am to Ag Zwin
That idiot will succeed in starting a nuclear war. In less than 2 years he will reconstitute a much more powerful Soviet Union, eliminate Taiwan and destroy the US economy. There was a reason Joe Biden was not successful as a presidential candidate and that was forgotten. I have no doubt that he will mismanage this crisis and we will be in nuclear exchange with Russia and China. I’m not for US intervention in the war, but we could at least do things that make sense, but no the First Idiot can’t do that.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:17 am to RollTide1987
quote:Yet, he didn't seem to even amp up, much less act on those desires until after NATO announced Georgia and Ukraine would become members. Right? When Obama attempted to make good on the NATO promise. Putin struck, and snatched Crimea. Then he paused for years.
This is Putin's desire to return Russia to its pre-1991 borders.
If his goal was reassemblage of the old-USSR, why stop at Crimea? If he was concerned about NATO access to Cold War Era Black Sea Naval facilities, Crimean SeaPorts, and control of the Black Sea, military action limited to the capture of Crimea makes perfect sense though.
Fast-forward several years. PotatoBrain enters the picture. He reengages Ukraine-NATO dialogue. What happens? Putin attacks.
Now you may call that a "coincidence". I don't. Putin warned against Ukraine and/or Georgia joining NATO over, and over, and over again in the lead-up to this war. He specifically labeled it Russia's "bright red line". Whether we felt Putin had justification to demand that NATO stay clear of Ukraine, whether we felt Putin had justification to strike or not, as we continued ignoring his "bright red line", it was crystal clear (or damn well should have been) that military action was a real possibility.
Kind of like walking down a public Park Path, only to encounter a large Eastern Diamondback coiled and rattling. You have every right to be on that path, and you have no intention of threatening the snake. But the snake doesn't realize that. Even though you meant the snake no ill-will, if you just back off a little, it will relax and eventually slither away. If you don't back off, it's likely it will strike, and when it does, it ain't like you weren't warned!
Biden and NATO played with the snake. So far, just Ukraine got bit.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 8:19 am
Posted on 3/5/22 at 8:22 am to Ag Zwin
If this was to be done it needed to be kept secret until NATO was announced as a full member.
Talking about it gave the Russians this opportunity.
Do it quietly and then announce it and Russia has fewer choices and higher stakes because NATO would have to defend.
Talking about it gave the Russians this opportunity.
Do it quietly and then announce it and Russia has fewer choices and higher stakes because NATO would have to defend.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:00 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yet, he didn't seem to even amp up, much less act on those desires until after NATO announced Georgia and Ukraine would become members. Right?
Who gives a shite? An independent nation has the right to make treaties and relations with other nations as it sees fit. Georgia and Ukraine expressing a desire to be signatories in a treaty involving other nations does not and should not give license to Putin to attack them. In fact, the very reason why Ukraine and Georgia tried to join NATO was to prevent what transpired in 2008, 2014, and 2022.
The reason why Putin attacked is because he wants Georgia and Ukraine to be part of Russia once more. Them joining NATO would have made that goal impossible to achieve without a general war with the United States and its allies.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 9:02 am
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:06 am to RollTide1987
quote:Unless they're in the Western Hemisphere. Right?
Who gives a shite? An independent nation has the right to make treaties and relations with other nations as it sees fit.
Those are just Eastern Hemisphere rights. Correct?
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:08 am to RollTide1987
The white knighting for Bidens foreign policy blunders is fricking sickening.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:09 am to RollTide1987
If I’m Finland I make a deal with NATO to keep my admission under wraps until the final vote and admission.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:09 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Unless they're in the Western Hemisphere. Right?
Whataboutism is a weak and intellectually bankrupt argument. The Cuban Missile Crisis was 60 years ago and was resolved diplomatically. Russia started a war of conquest in Ukraine. Apples and oranges.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:12 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Whataboutism is a weak and intellectually bankrupt argument.
quote:Manuel Noriega wants a word.
The Cuban Missile Crisis was 60 years ago
Your """whataboutism""" is an honest man's Double Standard.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:19 am to Ag Zwin
It was reckless indeed to do so without making that option just a part of a much larger-faceted approach to Russia's security and border concerns.
The Foreign Policy Expert is exposed as being no more astute than somebody on the TD PoliTalk board!
The Foreign Policy Expert is exposed as being no more astute than somebody on the TD PoliTalk board!
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:21 am to Ag Zwin
Russia bots are relentless. Biden did not cause Putin to spend months amassing and planning an invasion force. You people are idiots if you actually believe this,
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:22 am to TBoy
By any means necessary with you clowns
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:22 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
quote:
So two sovereign nations can't enter a pact, because a crazy dictator will get his feelings hurt.
I’m rarely this blunt here, but you’re a fricking idiot.
Seriously, take your white suburban arse in your 300 Nikes on up into the 9th ward at 2am on a Saturday and scream, 'I am a US citizen and I am free to walk where I please" but carry your ID so someone can claim the body.
Soverign nation my arse, BADGGGEEESSS, BAADDGGGESS????? We donnnn neeed no stinkin BADGGGGGES.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:24 am to ItTakesAThief
quote:
If I’m Finland I make a deal with NATO to keep my admission under wraps until the final vote and admission.
Why? Why would you have to sneak around? Are you afraid of your abusive boyfriend, Russia?
Such beta bullshite.
Independent nations can join alliances. That is their sovereign right. Russia does not dictate this. Anyone who suggests otherwise is either directly or implicitly promoting Russian propaganda.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 9:25 am
Posted on 3/5/22 at 9:24 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
Biden flirting with NATO membership for Ukraine was reckless.
It’s been said many times before but, Obama’s line is accurate. “ Never underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k up anything!”
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