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Message
re: Bernie Sanders says that "health care is a basic human right"
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:04 pm to dawgfan24348
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:04 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:Look, without trying to offend you, I think you just aren't totally informed about 2 key facts
dawgfan24348
1) Healthcare by defintion is a scarce resource, like any other resources. You will never have enough to satisfy all the healthcare needs of the people all the time. That is why you need some sort of system that triages and rations the care people need. In our system, the price system does that. In govt run systems, a govt agency determines who gets care.
2) You have a very elementary and idealistic image of a typical healthcare system in europe. You can't just walk into a european hospital or clinic and demand whatever treatment you want. For many expensive treatments, Your needs have to be analyzed first by the govt agency that rations healthcare.
This is why, for example, you cannot get braces paid for by the UK national health service unless your jaw is being actively harmed by malformed teeth. You cannot get hip and knee replacements in the UK unless you have an urgent need for a replacement.
0
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:07 pm to L.A.
The moment healthcare is deemed a right and paid for by the government, the GOP needs to start working on a bill to provide every citizen an AR-15, a computer and internet as the 1st and 2nd are rights too. If government has to pay for one right, they have to pay for them all.
I don’t think that should ever happen, but it’s the only way a government funded right argument will work.
I don’t think that should ever happen, but it’s the only way a government funded right argument will work.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:08 pm to L.A.
The labor of others is never a human right.
This is also big talk from someone that had a heart cath less than a year ago.
This is also big talk from someone that had a heart cath less than a year ago.
This post was edited on 2/15/20 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:13 pm to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
You can’t have a right to another persons labor. That’s called slavery.
So when the healthcare industry is more or less completely robotified/automatized by technology, does this argument become null and void? Just curious - honest question.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:23 pm to Hoops
quote:
The fact is we are so worried about “helping” the bottom we are neglecting those who deserve more assistance.
Classic PT obviously those who can't afford it are just bums or junkies.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:25 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
we are neglecting those who deserve more assistance
Miss this part? We are using resources on people that continue the same behavior that caused the problem. That money could be used to help the poor and/or unfortunate.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:28 pm to Hoops
So now you're advocating for the government to be selective? People will abuse the system but that doesn't mean we should just abandon any notion of universal healthcare.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:33 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Nice irrelevant deflection.
LOL It's not irrelevant.
By definition, my point illustrates that you don't have a "right" to shite in this area.
I should also like to point out that the entire phrase "health care is a right" is in conflict with the post you wrote.
"Health care" is a fricking ENORMOUSLY wide phrase.
Just because we'll help you IF you make I to the Emergency Room before you die IF there's an Emergency room even close enough does NOT mean that you have some "right" to the OVERALL thing we call health care.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:33 pm to dawgfan24348
Dawgfan, look, I know you are passionate about this issue
But you need to save yourself the disappointment
We will never have single payer or m4a healthcare
The best Bernie could get through Congress is public option, and even that will be very hard to get through. Obama failed to get it through
And it has nothing to do with lobbyists or greed
There are way too many losers and red flags to rally enough support for m4a
Even liberal states like Vermont and Colorado failed to pass state versions
But you need to save yourself the disappointment
We will never have single payer or m4a healthcare
The best Bernie could get through Congress is public option, and even that will be very hard to get through. Obama failed to get it through
And it has nothing to do with lobbyists or greed
There are way too many losers and red flags to rally enough support for m4a
Even liberal states like Vermont and Colorado failed to pass state versions
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:36 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
So when the healthcare industry is more or less completely robotified/automatized by technology, does this argument become null and void? Just curious - honest question.
Well, it certainly gets reduced.
Alas, even robots can't be everywhere AND, they aren't free.
The fundamental problem with this entire "Right" concept is it fails to recognize a variety of realities. The most obvious being....
1. It's impossible for everyone to have access to the same level of care.
2. It's impossible for everyone to have access to the same availability of care.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:43 pm to dawgfan24348
Now you are genuinely showing your ignorance. The government already is selective. I’m advocating for the professionals to be allowed to make the decisions.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:44 pm to L.A.
quote:
That's all fine, but none of it addresses the questions I raised in the OP.
It wasn't posted as a reply to your OP, but a related point brought up by another poster.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:48 pm to L.A.
Hes right , humans have a right to eat healthy , take care of themselves , and workout. Few tend to take advantage of that right so it why we have health insurance . Cant pay , bye bye
This post was edited on 2/15/20 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:49 pm to L.A.
It takes a special kind of moron to read the US Constitution and find an individual right to another individual’s services while simultaneously not seeing an individual’s right to bear arms.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:53 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
LOL It's not irrelevant.
By definition, my point illustrates that you don't have a "right" to shite in this area.
I should also like to point out that the entire phrase "health care is a right" is in conflict with the post you wrote.
"Health care" is a fricking ENORMOUSLY wide phrase.
Just because we'll help you IF you make I to the Emergency Room before you die IF there's an Emergency room even close enough does NOT mean that you have some "right" to the OVERALL thing we call health care.
Like I said....this is a "lather, rinse, repeat" situation on the PB where we discuss abstract, philosophical concepts, etc related to health care instead of more practical scenarios. Not saying theres not a place for it, but my goodness theres like a million threads similar to this one.
Call health care a right or not--whatever. At the end of the day, we (Americans as a whole) are willing to pay for other people to get medical treatment without them ever demonstrating their ability to pay for it themselves. The debate is now a matter of degrees.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 9:57 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
The debate is now a matter of degrees.
1. Life saving in emergency situations.
2. Children/elderly
3. Adults that are unable to work to provide for themselves.
For some reason we have allowed people that choose not to work to be allowed to claim they can’t work.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 10:36 pm to L.A.
Even if it is a right, I shouldn't have to pay for other people's healthcare.
BTW - NO ONE in this country can be denied HEALTH CARE.
Health insurance? Different animal.
BTW - NO ONE in this country can be denied HEALTH CARE.
Health insurance? Different animal.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 10:52 pm to mtntiger
The leeches don’t understand the difference. Anything they can obtain through medical professionals should be free in their opinion. Medications, transportation to appointments, motorized wheelchairs, actual procedures THEY think they need even if the professional doesn’t. It’s so disgusting when some career leech bitches bc they don’t get the fancy device they’ve seen someone else using. The one they got for free works just fine and was provided to them but they think they need the “deluxe” version.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 10:57 pm to L.A.
Apparently everything is a human right.
Except jobs.
Except jobs.
Posted on 2/15/20 at 11:11 pm to L.A.
Health care is a right if they can be a productive member of the state otherwise, good night.
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