re: Average yearly pension for a retired NYC fireman is $171k/year.

quote:

---

So theres no amount of money you wouldn't give for these people? How about $300k/year for all firefighters and police? And servicemen.

---

Nice strawman, they dont get $300k and no one is proposing that

No one signs up to be police or fire fighters to get rich. They dont make a lot of a money during their career, and in return they get a nice pension. If you have 1 or 2 kids, you are not saving shite towards retirement with what they make in cities like NYT, Chicago or LA. The pension is basically backpay for underpaying them during their actual working career

Goggled this ("Alabama State Income Tax Rates")

The Alabama state income tax rates for 2025 are as follows:
2% on the first $500 of taxable income for single filers, heads of household, and married individuals filing separately.
4% on income between $500 and $3,000 for single filers, heads of household, and married individuals filing separately.
5% on income exceeding $3,000 for single filers, heads of household, and married individuals filing separately.
These rates apply to residents, immigrants, and visa holders in Alabama.

State taxes on $171,000 for be about $8,310.

I am thinking I could deal with that.

Fed taxes are the same everywhere, so they are what they are.

quote:

---

Goggled this ("Alabama State Income Tax Rates")

The Alabama state income tax rates for 2025 are as follows:
2% on the first $500 of taxable income for single filers, heads of household, and married individuals filing separately.
4% on income between $500 and $3,000 for single filers, heads of household, and married individuals filing separately.
5% on income exceeding $3,000 for single filers, heads of household, and married individuals filing separately.
These rates apply to residents, immigrants, and visa holders in Alabama.

State taxes on $171,000 for be about $8,310.

I am thinking I could deal with that.

Fed taxes are the same everywhere, so they are what they are.

---

There's a reason you see so many of them migrate down South...figured the math still worked...it definitely doesn't work the other direction.

quote:

---

I don’t have to subsidize Swift.

---

But you subsidize NYC firemen?

quote:

---

I'm not sure if the retired firemen get SS


No not typically unless you worked a side job that paid into SS. If so it depends on how much you paid in and how long you did it like anyone else paying in.

---

Teachers didn't get SS because of their pension plan but they have made a change where teachers do get some SS payout now.

If you enlist as a lieutenant you are making about $68k a year including the housing credit, soldiers make the same as firefighters. I would also argue underpaid. No one is going to sign up for a job where they have to put their body on the line if they could get paid the same being a barista

The bigger issue is how teachers do an objectively shitty job, work half the year, make 6 figures during their working career, and get the cushy pension. Their unions are also weaponized to work for the DNC and they use their pensions to bully companies into ESG bullshite

I don't think most people are getting the real point here.

The question isn't, "Is 171K reasonable for a firefighter". The simple truth is, no matter what you think of the 171K, this much is true. It is A LOT BETTER BY A MILE of a fricking deal than 99.9% of the people paying taxes to support it are getting.

Governments all end up doing the same thing. Barely different than European kingdoms. The King/Government demands payments from the citizens and then promptly makes everyone connected to the King/Government substantially better off than the people doing the paying.

It's not some grand accident than the average Salaries in the DC area and average household income are so out of whack compared to the nation as a whole. That pretty much describes every government center since the dawn of time.

quote:

---

The bigger issue is how teachers do an objectively shitty job, work half the year, make 6 figures during their working career, and get the cushy pension. Their unions are also weaponized to work for the DNC and they use their pensions to bully companies into ESG bullshite

---

My wife is an educator in Alabama and almost all of the six-figure "educators" aren't in the classroom. They're admin of some form or another. Our gripe is that school systems tend to have way too much above-the-line personnel when they can't even find enough educators to be in the classroom. Frankly, I think the federated aspect of education is sometimes a negative because local school districts end up duplicating a lot of management and strategic positions that could be more efficiently done from the top down at the state department level. Local school districts should be sorta managerially thin and focus on making sure the students have qualified full-time staff and not temps or subs.

quote:

---

If you enlist as a lieutenant you are making about $68k a year including the housing credit, soldiers make the same as firefighters. I would also argue underpaid. No one is going to sign up for a job where they have to put their body on the line if they could get paid the same being a barista

---

You keep posting like NYC firemen are paid the $60K you first cited. That's not the case. They are making $105K (5 years) without overtime and holiday pay. Look it up - a 10 year vet, with holiday and overtime pay, is making $150-170K.

quote:

---

The bigger issue is how teachers do an objectively shitty job, work half the year, make 6 figures during their working career, and get the cushy pension. Their unions are also weaponized to work for the DNC and they use their pensions to bully companies into ESG bullshite

---

It's the same issue. You think teachers because there's a shite ton more of them but the issue is how public service has morphed into lucrative work over the last 30-40 years. It didn't used to be like this.

quote:

---

Teachers didn't get SS because of their pension plan but they have made a change where teachers do get some SS payout now.

---

I think that is a state level decision, right? Some states have opted-in and others have not. Alabama educators have both a pension withholding and social security payroll tax. Additionally, they offer an optional 403b/457b plan for retirement investment plans. So they have less take-home but they can have up to three different contributions to retirement. Since I make good money, my wife contributes to all three. Some educators can't afford that kind of haircut from their paycheck though.