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Are we learning tanks are essentially obsolete

Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:24 am
Posted by ItTakesAThief
Scottsdale, Arizona
Member since Dec 2009
9190 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:24 am
With the Ukrainians holding off Russian tanks with Javelins.

Imagine if they had the combined arms effects of Javelins, drones and air cover as the US would.

Does this show tanks are essentially obsolete on the battlefield today? And was Rumsfeld right the future is smaller mobile self contained forces with drone surveillance and air cover.
Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
12054 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:26 am to
We’re learning that combined arms is important

We’re learning that sending a column of armor single-file down a road you do not control is a bad idea
This post was edited on 3/30/22 at 10:27 am
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134845 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:27 am to
No, they're nowhere near obsolete.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
94877 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:28 am to
It also depends on what your enemy is using.

If you are facing armor, armor is appropriate.

If you are facing infantry with rifles, armor can work but isn’t your best choice.

If you are facing infantry with anti-tank missile, you chose… poorly.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
26070 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:28 am to
I think what we are seeing more is that the Russians suck arse at combined arms, as they always have. They don't effectively use their motorized infantry and/or airborne cav-type forces to screen for and support their tanks. Tanks cannot and have never been able to operate unsupported.
Posted by Tigers0891
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2017
6553 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:29 am to
You may need to win air superiority first but that does not mean tanks are obsolete. They are needed for infantry support and cover.

Technology always changes the Battlefield. Air power isn't everything either. If you can't hold land, you don't control anything. Armor is important for controlling land areas.

Afghanistan is such a shite place to invade because there are natural advantages to defenders and especially guerilla type ambushes. All the air power in the world didn't do much overall. frickers hid in caves until we left. Unless we occupied the entire land area and fished them out , it didn't matter. Tanks weren't going to be great in their terrain and we didn't have the will to kill massive amounts of people. It takes EVERYTHING to win a war.

Mountain caves don't mean fighter jets are obsolete.
This post was edited on 3/30/22 at 10:34 am
Posted by Lynxrufus2012
Central Kentucky
Member since Mar 2020
12067 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:31 am to
My dad's bomber group the 387th provided support for Patton back in WWII. You don't send in armor unsupported.

This post was edited on 3/30/22 at 3:03 pm
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
21687 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:35 am to
I haven't watch much footage of the war, but what little I saw had tanks in an open environment. They're not trying to use them in urban areas, are they? That'll get you fubarred in a hurry without infantry screens.
Posted by Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
10897 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:35 am to
quote:

Are we learning tanks are essentially obsolete


I guess you are if you believe everything the MSM is telling you.
Posted by Swamp Angel
Georgia
Member since Jul 2004
7249 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:36 am to
There are a lot of good answers in the replies to your OP, particularly in regard to combined arms. However, a very large portion of the issue can be attributed to the fact that Russian (Soviet-designed) tanks are nowhere near as formidable as US Abrams model tanks. The armor is thinner and made of steel alloy as opposed to titanium armor on US tanks. Russian design and engineering is a far cry from US design and engineering. You'll rarely (if ever) see an authentic Russian design on any of their ordnance and equipment. Most of it is stolen or reverse engineered from US/NATO equipment, and it's done with substandard metals and materials.

The combination of poorly designed and manufactured armor along with insufficient training and atrocious tactics results in the glaring failure of Russian armor in Ukraine.
Posted by Palmetto98
Where the stars are big and bright
Member since Nov 2021
2145 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:39 am to
I wouldn’t call something obsolete based off propaganda
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
21474 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:39 am to
quote:

Are we learning tanks are essentially obsolete


In urban warfare with little support? Yeah, they're not too effective.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
21687 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:40 am to
quote:

I wouldn’t call something obsolete based off propaganda




You let propaganda tell you who to vote for.
Posted by swamplynx
Lake Chuck
Member since Oct 2014
1239 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:41 am to
No. We're learning armor alone may be obsolete.
Posted by j1897
Member since Nov 2011
3560 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:42 am to
quote:

If you are facing armor, armor is appropriate.


If you are facing armor, hellfire and maverick missile are important. Having armor of your own is useless.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
23870 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:43 am to
quote:

We’re learning that sending a column of armor single-file down a road you do not control is a bad idea



I thought we learned that during Operation Market Garden?

Posted by OGtigerfan87
North La
Member since Feb 2019
3361 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:44 am to
Wow it is pretty much accepted by all sides and 3rd parties that Russian armor has taken substantial losses but the Putin fanboys still don’t want to hear it lol.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
23870 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:45 am to
Also, we have 19D's for a reason....
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
20385 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:46 am to
this ended up as a perfect storm of disaster for the russians.

1 the winter was too warm and they estimated that they would be able to travel overland due to unseasonably warm weather & mud they were forced to the roads.
2 underestimated logistical supply issues
3 underestimated ukranian defenses
4 western intelligence underestimated the strength of the Russian armed forces
Posted by bizeagle
Member since May 2020
1165 posts
Posted on 3/30/22 at 10:47 am to
quote:

Tanks cannot and have never been able to operate unsupported.

This is accurate. Tanks and armored vehicles have always been vulnerable to ground troops, so they require ground troops to support the tanks. If opposing ground troops get close enough with effective anti-tank weapons they can disable tanks.

Russia decided to send armored columns into horrible weather conditions with limited ground support. What kind of ground support soldier is going to want to trudge through freezing temps, wind, mud, snow, sludge, etc. without adequate food & clothing, only to face snipers, remote control IEDs and their only motivation is get rid on NAZIs who did nothing to provoke them? Putin made them to be canon fodder, hoping to wear down any resistance from Ukraine with an army who is not motivated.
This post was edited on 3/30/22 at 10:48 am
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