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Message
American Plan to Contain Imperial Japan
Posted on 5/13/19 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 5/13/19 at 2:50 pm
quote:
The key elements of the plan, as outlined in McCollum's memo, include the following:
A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore
B. Make an arrangement with the Netherlands for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies
C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek
D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore
E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient
F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific[,] in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands
G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil
H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire
Rather than deterring Japan, it pushed them to declare war.
Lifted from a discussion here
LINK
10
Posted on 5/13/19 at 2:54 pm to Lima Whiskey
Doesn't matter. We won.
This post was edited on 5/13/19 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 5/13/19 at 2:56 pm to Lima Whiskey
I love Japanese BBQ :)
Nuke them until they glow, and then shoot them in the dark!
Nuke them until they glow, and then shoot them in the dark!
Posted on 5/13/19 at 2:57 pm to Lima Whiskey
A nation can no more coexist with a serious geopolitical virus than a body can with a biological one. Eventually it's going to try and kill you. Doesn't matter if it's called imperial Japan, communism, or Islam.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 2:58 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek
Why were we so pro-Chinese then?
Posted on 5/13/19 at 3:15 pm to Lima Whiskey
I have wondered the same thing.
China has built a large portion of their economy on IP theft and unfair trade, we are telling them to knock it off or tariff the snot out of them. They will opt for option B rather than fall on their own sword. And if it gets bad enough they will resort to option C and start a dust up and agree to stop attacking Taiwan if we back off the tariffs.
China has built a large portion of their economy on IP theft and unfair trade, we are telling them to knock it off or tariff the snot out of them. They will opt for option B rather than fall on their own sword. And if it gets bad enough they will resort to option C and start a dust up and agree to stop attacking Taiwan if we back off the tariffs.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 3:16 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Dutch East Indies
This was my Pappy's first stop on his island hop across the Pacific from '43 - '45.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 3:17 pm to TheFonz
Well that escalated quickly.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 4:05 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire
Rather than deterring Japan, it pushed them to declare war.
People always cite this as why Japan attacked America preemptively - particularly liberals or H.S. teachers (same thing) who also argued the Soviets just wanted a buffer zone by gobbling up Eastern Europe after WWII and that it was reasonable for them to occupy those countries because muh Napoleon and then Hitler had invaded them - and woah, them.
Countries always have embargos or sanctions for wrong acts against the global community - so Japan can't say, oh sorry we raped Nanking, please give us more oil. If not we will attack you.
Japan wanted a Pacific Empire from the Emperor down. Plain and simple. They only attacked the US early to buy them some time to gain more islands.
They didn't realize it would take us under a year to smash them in the most "stunning and decisive blow in the history of Naval warfare." - John Keegan
Midway
This post was edited on 5/13/19 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 5/13/19 at 4:18 pm to TOSOV
quote:
Why were we so pro-Chinese then?
They weren't Communist scum then.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 4:24 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
American Plan to Contain Imperial Japan
quote:
[quote]Rather than deterring Japan, it pushed them to declare war.
1. America had a plan to contain Japan but it ignored the threat and the plan. In 1905 Gen Arthur McArthur and his son Douglas McArthur realized that the US and Japan would eventually run into conflict. The fools who thought that WW1 was the war to end all wars did not recognize the threat and they ignored those who did. Gen Patton's concerns about Japanese immigrants in the Hawaiian islands and the possibility of an attack on Pearl Harbor when he mentioned them in the late 1920s and early 1930s, and ignore McArthur's concerns about an attack on the Phillipines. As a result the US missed several opportunities to oppose Japan, and that made Japan thought that they could attack us and we would not fight back.
2. Are you trying to say that we should not have tried to protect our interests in the area?
This post was edited on 5/13/19 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 5/13/19 at 4:29 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
People always cite this as why Japan attacked America preemptively - particularly liberals or H.S. teachers (same thing) who also argued the Soviets just wanted a buffer zone by gobbling up Eastern Europe after WWII and that it was reasonable for them to occupy those countries because muh Napoleon and then Hitler had invaded them - and woah, them.
Countries always have embargos or sanctions for wrong acts against the global community - so Japan can't say, oh sorry we raped Nanking, please give us more oil. If not we will attack you.
Japan wanted a Pacific Empire from the Emperor down. Plain and simple. They only attacked the US early to buy them some time to gain more islands.
Don't quit your day job.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 4:42 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Japan thought that they could attack us and we would not fight back.
They understood we would fight back, and they appreciated how much stronger we were.
Ultimately, they felt they had no choice.
Honor demanded it.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 4:44 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Are you trying to say that we should not have tried to protect our interests in the area?
We ultimately created the problem we were trying to avoid. We thought constraining Japan would constrain their behavior, but that’s rarely how it works in the real world.
They would not abandon their empire, and their honor demanded war.
It’s just something to consider as we try and force other countries to bend. Iran in particular.
This post was edited on 5/13/19 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 5/13/19 at 5:21 pm to BuckyCheese
Chang Kai-Shek provided the main anti-Japanese force in China while Mao pretty much hid in the countryside until it subsided.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 5:25 pm to Boatshoes
Great post
Posted on 5/13/19 at 5:40 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Don't stop making excuses for hostile acts all across the Pacific and the U.S.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 5:46 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Japan wanted a Pacific Empire from the Emperor down. Plain and simple. They only attacked the US early to buy them some time to gain more islands.
They didn't realize it would take us under a year to smash them in the most "stunning and decisive blow in the history of Naval warfare." - John Keegan
While true, it never hurts to understand the other side. Notice I say "understand" not agree.
The Japanese not too long before this had defeated Russia in the Sino Japanese war. Maybe that made them arrogant, but they effectively defeated a westernized nations naval power.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 5:51 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
They would not abandon their empire, and their honor demanded war.
Their honor demanded a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor while simultaneously being in negotiations?
Interesting view of honor.
Posted on 5/13/19 at 5:54 pm to TOSOV
Japan had already invaded China.
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