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re: Am I the product of a racist environment ?
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:35 am to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:35 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Someone made a comment about what the kid was taught by his parents. I'm pointing out what the parents lived through and how it is entirely withing expectations for them to pass on the message to him that they did. And the effects of this institutionalized terrorism against an entire swath of citizens has major repercussions felt to this day - see the housing exclusion discussion point. It's very easy and convenient for white voters to sit atop the mountain of 70 years of home equity gains and then point and blame black voters for the massive disparities in wealth that persist to this day as a direct effect of that exclusion.
That's fair or fair-ish anyway. My mother grew up dirt poor and will still haggle over being charged 1.00 more than she should. My dad bought our family business from his dad (I'd say he grew up middle class maybe ever so slightly upper mid but that's pushing it) and built the business that's still chugging along today. I didn't really realize my family had wealth- just from the way we lived- til I was probably in college.
The point of that was that I realize it now and don't deny that my family being white probably did have advantages that black folks didn't that helped enable my father to be successful. In saying that, I feel a bit like I'm somehow belittling my dad because he worked his arse off for years and years and years. So, it's kind of a conundrum for me to tell you the truth. I'm not going to apologize for having great hard working parents but I do understand the advantage. I guess I just really don't know what the endgame is or if there is one. I can't rewrite history and give black folks the advantages 100 years ago that would trickle down to current blacks. What are we supposed to do?
2
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:35 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Zounds
That's another bit of "white privilege," my brother: fine print.
Ofays got all kinds of tricks.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:38 am to volod
I'm a white man. I grew up in poverty. Today it would be labelled, "extreme poverty".
While in a general discussion about youth, I mentioned that fact and a young black man, T, laughed good naturedly and said, "you never grew up in poverty". I explained it to him and how I escaped poverty. He replied, my dad worked for the railroad so I had a middle class upbringing.
We were employed by the Tennessee Valley Authority. A short time later, TVA instituted a random drug testing policy. "T" quit TVA. A few years later, I heard that T was in prison for stealing his parents retirement checks and buying drugs. Its not where you are born or color its what you do with your opportunities.
While in a general discussion about youth, I mentioned that fact and a young black man, T, laughed good naturedly and said, "you never grew up in poverty". I explained it to him and how I escaped poverty. He replied, my dad worked for the railroad so I had a middle class upbringing.
We were employed by the Tennessee Valley Authority. A short time later, TVA instituted a random drug testing policy. "T" quit TVA. A few years later, I heard that T was in prison for stealing his parents retirement checks and buying drugs. Its not where you are born or color its what you do with your opportunities.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:38 am to volod
Did those who raised you ever consider that they failed of their own accord, not due to white people?
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:41 am to Redbone
I'm 25.
I never experienced the harshest forms of racism. If anything, I've seen and dealt with more classism. It really isn't so bad since it does not stop me from having opportunities to succeed.
And classism is relevant in any race.
I never experienced the harshest forms of racism. If anything, I've seen and dealt with more classism. It really isn't so bad since it does not stop me from having opportunities to succeed.
And classism is relevant in any race.
This post was edited on 1/9/17 at 11:45 am
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:54 am to volod
quote:Didn't you just graduate in engineering?
volod
If you keep this positive attitude, you'll be very successful.
Trust me, there's a world of opportunity out there for you to grab by the pussy.
Good luck to you bro.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:57 am to volod
The issue for you shouldn't so much be "is it racist" but more, did my parents instill the values in me that helped me succeed and be a good person? Put another way, what of their wisdom would you pass on and what would you change when talking to your own kids?
Really only you can ultimately answer that but from what you posted the "work harder" is definitely a keeper but the "you will never be as successful" part is pure poison.
Really only you can ultimately answer that but from what you posted the "work harder" is definitely a keeper but the "you will never be as successful" part is pure poison.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 11:58 am to piggilicious
quote:
So, it's kind of a conundrum for me to tell you the truth. I'm not going to apologize for having great hard working parents but I do understand the advantage. I guess I just really don't know what the endgame is or if there is one. I can't rewrite history and give black folks the advantages 100 years ago that would trickle down to current blacks. What are we supposed to do?
There's nothing you can do. You don't need to apologize since you didn't start the cycle. Honestly the system we have today is really the best we've had in recent decades.
We have multiple avenues for careers both collegiate or non collegiate.
Even if you dont get scholarships, loan money is still available up to 150k for grad studies via the GOVT. I understand a lot of conservatives dislike the current loan system. But I think that the skeleton should remain intact even if responsibility is given back to Banks.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:01 pm to volod
quote:
And classism is relevant in any race.
Speaking in broad generalizations, of course, white protestants (tended to be wealthier) looked down on Catholics (largely poorer and recent immigrants) until, probably, after WWII. Among blacks, light-skinned blacks tend to look down on their dark-skinned brethren. Ditto for those of West Indian extraction (somewhat of a reversal of the protestant nativist whites vs the Catholic immigrant divide mentioned above) looking down on more long-term black "natives."
But, at the end of the day one cannot control what others do, say or think. One can only control what he does, says or thinks.
The fact that you're discussing the issue in these terms leans away from a conclusion that you're either racist or a product of a racist environment. Prejudiced? Certainly - I'm of the opinion that it is impossible to be a human being without prejudice or a prejudiced environment - all the self-hating SJWs may take an extreme position the other way, but that is also grounded in prejudice.
If people would focus on their families, their issues and their challenges, rather than try to tear others down, find excuses for underachievement or always questing to allocate blame, we would all be a lot better off.
This post was edited on 1/9/17 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:01 pm to volod
quote:
volod
The best advice my parents gave me growing up was to look in the mirror and see myself as a man, not a black man.
Carry yourself with respect, humility, work ethos, and no qualifiers, and those who are about something worthwhile will reciprocate.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:06 pm to volod
quote:
I was told these things by my community growing up.
Here's what I tell my kids (white):
quote:
you always will have to work harder in life versus whites in order to succeed.
You will have to bust your butt in school and get the ABSOLUTELY best grades you can. Not pretty good, the best you can. I don't want to see a B+ if you played xbox for 2 hrs yesterday. The world is competitive and no one is going to hand you anything. Same with jobs. Be early, dressed appropriately ( not just what will 'get you by' or 'good enough'), look people in the eye, be the best employee there.
quote:
whites are always looking for reasons to incarcerate black people no matter how miniscule the crime
Do not break any laws. It is far too hard to overcome the stigma associated with arrests. Sure, some may seem stupid. But they are written in black and white, so just follow them. Even the ones you don't like or agree with.
quote:
they can put in less effort in maintaining success.
You are always being evaluated by someone. You may not know them or even see them, but they know you. And their opinion may haunt you one day. So be sure to always be aware in every situation. You know the right way to act, so do it. Even who you associate with and choose as your 'crowd' matters. Associate with kids who are doing the right things.
The onus is on them to succeed, but I want them to have every chance to do so. Showing them all the barriers that someone may percieve to be in their way is not helpful. 'The World' doesn't care if they are black, white, or green. Or maybe it does. Doesn't matter. Anyone who does the above stated things should be in a decent position for success regardless. Anyone who does not is leaving it to chance, and relying on
quote:. Which isn't a good place to be
jobs and other benefits due to associates they know.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:23 pm to volod
Pandering to the southern baws huh?
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:26 pm to Tigerdev
Just call him Uncle Tom like you want to do. Don't beat around the bush. 
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:32 pm to volod
quote:
I was told that you always will have to work harder in life versus whites in order to succeed.
Possibly before affirmative action. I have seen people promoted to management who didn't know the difference between to, too, and two when writing reports. They also lacked other leadership and communication skills.
quote:
whites are always looking for reasons to incarcerate black people
I know a lot of white people and jailing innocent people never comes up in a conversation, they do however say such things as he/she should be thrown under the jail, as if that is a possibility. But, if it makes you feel better it is also said about whites who commit any type of violent crime as well.
quote:
Meanwhile, whites almost always get a lighter sentence or none at all.
There are so many variables to this sentence when it comes to sentencing criminals. Skin color isn't usually one of them in MOST cases, not saying it doesn't happen at all, but not to the extent as it is pushed in the black community.
quote:
Whites do work hard, but alot of them come from wealth
And a lot of them come from nothing. And a lot of them stay at nothing.
quote:
And they get jobs and other benefits due to associates they know.
This is true for all races, sometimes it's not what you know but who you know. IE when I worked at an engineering firm fresh out of college a lot of LSU football players had part time jobs there as well. They also made more money than I did as their supervisor. Did I complain, no. It is what it is. BTW, these are some of the people who don't know the difference between to, too, and two.
quote:
As a result, they can put in less effort in maintaining success.
There are lazy people of all races and with the way the corporate world works today, it is almost impossible to fire anyone without a substantial amount of paperwork and write ups on the employee. As far as the guy getting the job due to a dad's friend, those are usually pushed harder and expected to work harder than most. (In the cases I have seen).
quote:
I was told that I would never be fully accepted even if I obtained better financial status due to my race.
It's not really a race thing IMO, but rather most unsuccessful people don't like successful people. I have actually had to talk to young kids who were straight A students who would come to me crying because a family member told them they were an Uncle Tom or even worse.
quote:
would generally be seen as lazy and anti-law, even though those factors are not the case.
Most of the time it is how you present yourself and respect you give to people. I have a customer who dresses like a "thug", but he is one of my favorite customers because he is respectful. I also have customers who dress in polo shirts who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.
quote:
I was told these things by my community growing up.
Sounds like your community needs to get out more and quit being so judgmental.
But, being judgmental is sometimes human nature as I have been called a racist before just because the color of my skin. I live in a predominately black neighborhood (by choice), have a business in a predominately Hispanic neighborhood, and am married to an Asian woman (by choice).
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:35 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
The best advice my parents gave me growing up was to look in the mirror and see myself as a man, not a black man.
And thank you, Volod, for your last response to me. I truly appreciated it.
This post was edited on 1/9/17 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:38 pm to volod
quote:
And to be honest, I think it's really only a certain segment of the population who have multiple advantages.
Yes, and this is important to recall. My observation is confined to the South: most Caucasian families in the South were rather poor. Take Louisiana, for example -- PERFECT example. The Cajuns and other "white" minority groups like the Sicilians of NOLA -- most of these families were quite poor 100 years ago.
Back in 1917 the Sicilians/Italians in NOLA were new immigrants. I'm not sure whether the NOLA "native" ethnic groups in NOLA in 1917 considered the Italians to be "white people".
It is a fact that the African American families in Louisiana back in 1917 were even MORE poor as a group than the whites, but, your average family 100 years ago was MUCH poorer than today.
Back in 1917 the well-to-do Anglo-Saxon White Protestants of the USA looked down on: Irish catholics, White Cajuns, mixed race Cajuns, Sicilians, Southern Italians, poor white trash of all kinds, the Polish, the Germans and the Jewish -- unless perhaps they could sidle up to and befriend some really wealthy Jews because rich people like to associate with other rich people.
Things were bad back then. Things are MUCH better now. We don't tolerate racism anymore. Back in 1917, racism was embedded in our very Government -- local, state and to some extent Federal Govt.
This post was edited on 1/9/17 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:42 pm to volod
quote:
I am a black man.
Don't care.
quote:
I grew up in an environment where I was told that you always will have to work harder in life versus whites in order to succeed. I was told that whites are always looking for reasons to incarcerate black people no matter how miniscule the crime. Meanwhile, whites almost always get a lighter sentence or none at all.
Cry more
quote:
was told that I would never be fully accepted even if I obtained better financial status due to my race. I would generally be seen as lazy and anti-law, even though those factors are not the case.
Don't listen to idiots and make your own decisions/choices and take personal responsibility for those choices.
quote:
I was told these things by my community growing up. My parents instilled in me to respect everyone, which is what I do. And i grew up knowing that i would have to work for everthing, since i lack wealth, powerful associates, or privelege by birth. But I never held that against anyone, and simply study and work the best way that I can.
Commendable
quote:
However, I wonder if this means my environment is racist to whites.
Stop worrying about race. It is 2017 and despite what some may tell you, you can rise as high as you want in the US if you have the ability and desire.
This post was edited on 1/9/17 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:47 pm to volod
I call it more ignorant and conspiratorial than racist. Prejudiced probably. But racist, no. I also have a definition of racism that has a much narrower and more delineated scope than popular culture though.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 12:56 pm to volod
quote:
I am a black man.
I grew up in an environment where I was told that you always will have to work harder in life versus whites in order to succeed. I was told that whites are always looking for reasons to incarcerate black people no matter how miniscule the crime. Meanwhile, whites almost always get a lighter sentence or none at all.
Whites do work hard, but alot of them come from wealth. And they get jobs and other benefits due to associates they know. So they don't face the same societal or economic struggles as blacks. As a result, they can put in less effort in maintaining success.
I was told that I would never be fully accepted even if I obtained better financial status due to my race. I would generally be seen as lazy and anti-law, even though those factors are not the case.
I was told these things by my community growing up. My parents instilled in me to respect everyone, which is what I do. And i grew up knowing that i would have to work for everthing, since i lack wealth, powerful associates, or privelege by birth. But I never held that against anyone, and simply study and work the best way that I can.
However, I wonder if this means my environment is racist to whites.
I believe for decades the black community in this country have been done a terrible disservice largely at the hand of the liberal democratic voting organization.
I believe the message you just describe being told to you by your black community was first instilled on your community by WHITE liberal democrats. It's been proven that liberal democrats have for decades sent that message along with social government hand out programs into the black communities as a form of political education to ensure the black community would be dependent on and could be counted on to support democratic politicians.
It's taken decades for the liberals democrats to destroy the black family bond, one of the strongest and most dedicated bonds on history. But make no mistake about it at the hands of the liberal democratic party racism and racial division is alive and prospering. Division is their only weapon and dependency is their only offer to the black community.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:05 pm to volod
quote:
I am a black man
quote:
volod
quote:
Southern fan
no shite
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