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re: All this talk about 47 "shredding the constitution" yet no specific examples...
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:25 am to lake chuck fan
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:25 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
To "facilitate " his return would be something like, if El Salvador chose to return the guy, Trump would send a plane and pick him up.
THAT would be considered "facilitating ".
It's very likely that the admin will be questioned as to what, exactly, they did to follow the court's orders.
I bet they will try to hide from review by claiming national security or a privilege related to foreign diplomacy.
0
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Met with the President of El Salvador in the WH. This was one of the topics discussed. Bukele then advised he would not release Garcia.
quote:
As professor Maraist would say, "that dog won't hunt"
So now you want to kidnap sovereign citizens from other countries?
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:26 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
So you want him to negotiate to achieve something that he doesn’t want?
I don't. The Supreme Court does. In fact it's not a "want" as much as an "order"
He was ordered to do something he clearly doesn't want to do. That's why it has to be in the form of an order (and not a request).
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It shows the admin isn't working towards the goal they were given and their sincerity in following the order
Oh darn... shame on them for not trying harder to return a criminal illegal alien to the US only to fly him back home after some additional paperwork.
The travesty!!
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:27 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
So now you want to kidnap sovereign citizens from other countries?
No. I never said nor implied that.
Trump has the power to negotiate his return. I don't believe he's a feckless pussy like MAGA is pretending trying to be clever.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:27 am to Dock Holiday
quote:
Oh darn... shame on them for not trying harder to return a criminal illegal alien to the US only to fly him back home after some additional paperwork.
Yeah the Constitution sucks by making the government follow the law. Really a bummer, I tell you.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:27 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
The "withholding of removal" order given by the judge in 2019 isn't valid. Garcia being a member of a terrorist organization disqualifies him.
Here is a quote, directly from that SCOTUS ruling:
quote:
The United States acknowledges that Abrego Garcia was subject to a withholding order forbidding his removal to El Salvador, and that the removal to El Salvador was therefore illegal.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:28 am to funnystuff
quote:
But saying there’s absolutely no reason to even be concerned here is asinine.
Except that is not at all what the OP is saying. Strawman
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The USSC just had a 9-0 ruling...
Yes, striking down the idea the Executive must "effectuate" (essentially, "cause to happen") Garcia's release but to "facilitate" it (essentially, "do whatever is legal on our end to help the process"). The difference between the two is that the latter ("facilitate") is predicated on the government of El Salvador being willing to start the process. President Bukele has flat-out stated he's not interested in starting the process at all.
Per the SCOTUS ruling, going by the district court's standard of effectuating potentially exceeds Judicial branch authority, as it could infringe on the Executive branch’s foreign affairs powers.
In other words, while Trump can try to negotiate a deal with Bukele on this, he isn't obligated to do so by this ruling.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Factual? Sure
It shows the admin isn't working towards the goal they were given and their sincerity in following the order.
You can put lipstick on a pig all you want, but it's still a pig at the end of the day.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:29 am to funnystuff
quote:
Even still, this guy very directly and very precisely did exactly what Joe Biden told him to do. Even though what Joe Biden told him to do was illegal (making Biden the truly evil one), he followed the process as defined by the president precisely. And the correct punishment for an illegal alien who did exactly what he was instructed to do by the President of the United States is not a literal lifetime of torture. The right punishment is deportation. Deportation and torture are not the same thing. We have chosen the latter. And it’s a fricked up thing to do.
When attempting to make a point, it is important to try to independently research it.. Pulling a talking point off some social media platform doesn't make it true.
Garcia entered the United States illegally in 2011. Joe Biden wasn’t President and didn’t invite people to come here illegally.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:30 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Except that is not at all what the OP is saying. Strawman
I believe he was talking about the administration "shredding the Constitution"
It hasn't officially happened yet, but it appears that we're headed directly for that results and that should be concerning to everyone
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Yeah the Constitution sucks by making the government follow the law.
"The Constitution" is doing nothing here, people are. And legally the Constitution is whatever 5 people say it is, and that is "shredding the Constitution" far more effectively than anybody in the other two branches.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:30 am to PsychTiger
100% correct
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't. The Supreme Court does. In fact it's not a "want" as much as an "order"
you're obfuscating the ruling. it said nothing about the Govt SHALL return him from El Salvador. It said should facilitate. That means if El Salvador chooses to release him, the Govt should send a plane to get him. They didn't, and won't. End of story. Get over it. It's odd that you wrote in another post just this morning "you sure this is the hill you want to die on?", yet here you are, fighting to the death for a MS-13 gang member (confirmed by 2 different Federal courts), and MS-13 has been classified as a terrorist organization. So, I'll ask you. You sure this is the hill you want to die on?
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:33 am to Bard
quote:
The difference between the two is that the latter ("facilitate") is predicated on the government of El Salvador being willing to start the process. President Bukele has flat-out stated he's not interested in starting the process at all.
Well that raises the question of the actual facilitation, especially given the agreements made between the admin and Bukele. Then, it raises the question of legality of the scheme itself, if the admin admits it's feckless and without any power to negotiate a simple return.
quote:
as it could infringe on the Executive branch’s foreign affairs powers.
In other words, while Trump can try to negotiate a deal with Bukele on this, he isn't obligated to do so by this ruling.
Again, creating a scheme to permit illegality and avoid judicial review is exactly the example of "shredding the Constitution" asked by OP.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:35 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:36 am to FriedEggBowL
quote:
it said nothing about the Govt SHALL return him from El Salvador. It said should facilitate
And I'm discussing the admin's lack of attempts at legitimate facilitation.
quote:
It's odd that you wrote in another post just this morning "you sure this is the hill you want to die on?", yet here you are, fighting to the death for a MS-13 gang member (confirmed by 2 different Federal courts), and MS-13 has been classified as a terrorist organization.
The test of our rights almost always relies on unsavory characters. This attempt at an emotional argument is meaningless.
Yes, the hill I want to die on is ensuring compliance with the constitution and punishing any admin who enacts schemes to shield their illegal behavior.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Again, creating a scheme to permit illegality and avoid judicial review is exactly the example of "shredding the Constitution" asked by OP.
yet you're perfectly fine with illegals and foreign gang members staying in our country. speaking out of both sides of your mouth
Posted on 4/16/25 at 8:37 am to funnystuff
quote:
You know it, I know it, we all know it. It’s obvious and right there in front of us.
You missed my earlier post. I'll repeat.
We can argue about Trumps intent/motive all day, its a matter of opinion. As far as facts go, Trump is firmly on the right side of the law.
Garcia was twice found to be a MS13 memeber. There's his due process. The judges withholding order is now invalid due to MS13 being named a terrorist organization.
The man is a legal citizen of El Salvador, therefore he is subject to El Salvador's jurisdiction which he has been returned to.
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