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re: 2nd plane from an angle I had not seen.

Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:43 am to
Posted by CleverUserName
Member since Oct 2016
12612 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:43 am to
quote:

but it was pretty clear they knew something was about to happen. Only a handful of folks at the FBI put it together ,


Probably because the guy at the flight school where they trained was ringing alarm bells to them.

If they had paid it as much attention as a garage pull rope in Talladega, Alabama, September 11 would just be another day and we may have had an administration with enough balls to kill Bin Laden when the opportunity had presented itself. And the reason would have been the USS Cole and the 93 bombing instead of September 11.
Posted by TigerVespamon
Member since Dec 2010
6062 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:47 am to
quote:

Wait a sec. Does that mean that building was hit twice?
You're so stupid.
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
30769 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:48 am to
quote:

I have watched it 8 times and it appears as if something comes out the opposite side. Was that just debris or some of the plane?


767 cruise speed is about 500 mph. Im sure it was all of the above.
Posted by Rex Feral
Athens
Member since Jan 2014
11310 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:49 am to
My God how terrifying.
Posted by Stealth Matrix
29°59'55.98"N 90°05'21.85"W
Member since Aug 2019
7820 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:50 am to
Footage of the 1st plane is incredibly rare but it has been caught on tape

LINK
Posted by Zarkinletch416
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Member since Jan 2020
8374 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:51 am to
quote:

Im not saying it was an inside job but Id like to know what we knew and when we knew it.


Surely somebody reported to the FBI (or someone) these Saudi guys were looking to learn how to fly passenger jets? Especially given the fact, they were not interested in how to land the thing, but only how to take-off and fly the airplane.

Also given there had already been an attack on the Twin Towers in 1993, I simply cannot believe our domestic intelligence assets did not know about the activities of these terrorist.

Posted by cattus
Member since Jan 2009
13432 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:53 am to
quote:

Message
2nd plane from an angle I had not seen. by PhDoogan
Check this one out I had not seen before. Impact around 3:40. The increased roar of the engine as it approaches is eerie.
there is footage that actually caught the first plane going in with sound and I've always thought that the audio in that was eerie. Plane hits slower than the second. ETA: looks like that might be the one just posted
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 8:56 am
Posted by CleverUserName
Member since Oct 2016
12612 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:55 am to
quote:

I have watched it 8 times and it appears as if something comes out the opposite side. Was that just debris or some of the plane?


Dude. A fully loaded and fueled Jumbo jet hit that building, with a relatively open floor plan, at 3/4 the speed of sound.

Yea… a bit of debris as well as the plane went through the building to the opposite side.
Posted by ThermoDynamicTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
1278 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:58 am to
A day that I will never forget. America changed forever from that day forward. There is real evil in this world.
Posted by SouthEasternKaiju
SouthEast... you figure it out
Member since Aug 2021
24890 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 8:59 am to
I’ve seen this angle before. Pretty sure if memory serves that it was a French film crew doing a story on one of the New York FD houses and the crew was coincidentally there at the time.

It’s been 20 years and I have seen damn near every video taken it seems. I am just drawn to watching this sort of stuff.
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 11:40 am
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39578 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:00 am to
quote:

Surely somebody reported to the FBI (or someone) these Saudi guys were looking to learn how to fly passenger jets? Especially given the fact, they were not interested in how to land the thing, but only how to take-off and fly the airplane.


Y'all must be young, because yes, it was reported to authorities. They didn't connect the dots or get it up the ladder.
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39578 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:01 am to
quote:

I’ve seen this angle before. Pretty sure if memory serves that it was a French film crew doing a story on one of the York FD houses and the crew was coincidentally there at the time.



Ya, they ran this video the following anniversary. Lots of footage from inside the towers and even inside the first tower when second tower collapsed, etc.
Posted by TigerVespamon
Member since Dec 2010
6062 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:02 am to
Seeing all of the paper documents floating down caused me to consider the poor souls that produced or handled that paper.

I also remembered this heartbreaking story...

quote:

Two Friends, Two Doomed Flights

You may think of it as the strangest collision in the strangest week in American memory. You might call it the deadly serendipity of circumstances, an incredible freak of science and mathematics and airline schedules, or the terrible collateral of terrorist carnage.

Ruth Clifford McCourt and Paige Farley Hackel would say you were wrong to think of their story as random--if only they were still here to tell it.

McCourt and Hackel were best friends for more than a decade. They toured Africa together. They were meditation partners. In their mid-40s, they still were turning heads all over New England. “Soul sisters,” they called themselves. Separate the two and the universe might be thrown dangerously out of balance.

Tuesday, they were traveling with each other again, driving to Boston’s Logan International Airport to begin a vacation in Southern California. With Ruth’s daughter Juliana in tow, they would see friends and spend a few days at Deepak Chopra’s Center for Well Being in La Jolla.

But their togetherness ended at the airport: Try as they might, they couldn’t get seats on the same plane.

Hackel, 46, left first, on American Airlines Flight 11. Ruth McCourt, 45, and Juliana, 4, boarded United Airlines Flight 175.

In New York, McCourt’s brother, Ronald Clifford, had arrived at the World Trade Center from his home in New Jersey. He was 15 minutes early for a business meeting. As he paced the lobby, he felt the building shake.

It was Paige Hackel’s flight crashing into the north tower.

Clifford spotted a woman whose skin had been singed. He led her out of the building and helped her find medical treatment, according to relatives. Then he looked up and saw the plane carrying his sister and niece crash into the south tower.

On Saturday, Hackel’s family, including her mother, husband and stepson, attended a funeral Mass for McCourt and her daughter in East Lyme, Conn. Today, the McCourt clan will travel north to Boston for Hackel’s service. The brother who saw it all insisted on handling the arrangements.

“This is all completely appropriate,” said McCourt’s mother, Paula Scott. “I knew that if one of them had to go, both of them would have to go. And now our families have come together.

“My daughter and Paige were terribly connected.”

One morning 11 years ago, Paige Hackel walked into Clifford Classiques, a spa on Centre Street in Boston that Ruth Clifford had opened in 1985. A conversation about everything from skin treatments to the afterlife ensued. The two women discovered they had, in different ways, devoted their lives to healing.

The third of six children and the only daughter of a paper merchant and his wife in Cork, Ireland, Ruth Clifford had immigrated to the United States at age 17. After living briefly in Los Angeles, she moved to Rochester, N.Y., where she was hired to open satellite campuses around the country for a modeling school based there. In 1982, she settled in Boston.

The woman who entered her shop had a tougher life. Born in the Boston suburb of Framingham, the former Paige Farley, one of three siblings, spent much of her early years battling drug and alcohol addiction. She successfully completed treatment in 1985 and, by the time she met Clifford, she was volunteering with Salvation Army treatment programs and working toward a master’s degree in substance abuse counseling.

She sought out spiritual counsel from self-help gurus, notably author Wayne Dyer. She met and married Allan Hackel and they settled into a home in Newton, not far from McCourt’s. Their answering machine playfully urges friends to “take a deep breath, smile, enjoy the day.”

“Paige had been through a lot,” says Mimi Torp of Santa Monica, who was a friend of both women. But now “she was married to a husband who . . . was a very supportive man.”

The new friends made a striking pair on the streets of Boston. Clifford, who had done some modeling, was tall with fire-red hair. Hackel, who ran triathlons, had dark hair and bright eyes that commanded attention.

Hackel introduced Clifford to meditation. They had traveled to Chopra’s center in La Jolla at least once before. In recent years, Hackel had studied with a colleague of Chopra’s, Debbie Ford, author of the New York Times bestseller “The Dark Side of the Light Chasers.”

Hackel was a member of an “integrative coaching” group that met over the phone every Tuesday. She found Ford’s “shadow process” so inspiring that she made plans to start an AM radio show to be called “Spiritually Speaking.”

“For many people who have been on the road to recovery, it’s not about trying to get rid of or change everything,” says Ford. “It’s about learning to love and integrate all parts of you.”

In September 1994, Clifford married David McCourt, owner of a construction business, in a ceremony at the Vatican. When Juliana was born, Hackel was her godmother. In 1999, the McCourts moved to a waterfront home in New London, Conn., David’s hometown.

To bridge the distance, the friends scheduled outings. Hackel would come to Connecticut for McCourt’s St. Patrick’s Day parties, or McCourt would travel north to join Hackel on trips to Loon Mountain in New Hampshire.

In January of this year, McCourt, Hackel and Hackel’s mother, Marjorie Farley, visited South Africa and Zimbabwe. In March, they went skiing. Last month, McCourt helped her friend organize a birthday party for Hackel’s mother in Boston.

The California trip would be another opportunity to be together. McCourt would tag along with Hackel on a four-day intensive session with Ford at Chopra’s. They would visit friends in Los Angeles and take Juliana to Disneyland.

It wasn’t until Tuesday night that their loved ones pieced together the details of the tragedy. Family and friends said they took small comfort--but comfort nonetheless--in the fact that the two friends had perished together.

In California, Ford said she believes that in some way, the proximity of the deaths of Hackel and the two McCourts were “planned, fated. . . . I don’t really believe in coincidences.”

Family and friends say McCourt and Hackel would have responded to the terrorist attack by emphasizing peace and negotiation.

In New London, the Juliana McCourt Children’s Educational Fund has been established to help foreign students come to the United States and study subjects related to healing and tolerance. In California, a Paige Farley Scholarship will allow people to attend Ford’s training program tuition-free.

As she prepared for the two funerals, Paula Scott, McCourt’s mother, kept replaying the World Trade Center crashes in her mind. She says she somehow knew at the moment she saw the second plane crash on TV that she had lost her granddaughter, her daughter and her daughter’s best friend.

“I know it wasn’t physically possible,” she says. “But I had a vision of all of them holding onto each other.”

Two Friends




This post was edited on 9/15/21 at 10:41 pm
Posted by September 1948
Member since Jun 2018
2133 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:03 am to
Well,dude, pardon me.

First of all, I am not a dude.

Second, where did the rest of the plane end up? I had heard of part of the landing gear end up on the street and injured a woman quite badly.
Posted by LordSaintly
Member since Dec 2005
38882 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:03 am to
I remember that shot. First time seeing it since ‘01.
Posted by PhDoogan
Member since Sep 2018
14947 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:04 am to
Here are some animations from the first-party insurance litigation demonstrating the impacts.

YT So Tower

YT No Tower

Notice each plane tilted at an angle at impact to maximize damage across multiple floors. Flight 11 hit more dead on center towards the top whereas Flight 175 hit lower and closer to the edge of the south tower. The south tower was hit second and came down first within 1 hour whereas the north tower took nearly two hours to come down.
Posted by Dday63
Member since Sep 2014
2297 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:06 am to
quote:

I simply cannot believe our domestic intelligence assets did not know about the activities of these terrorist.



We didn't have much in the way of domestic intelligence agencies back then. And the intelligence agencies we had didn't talk to each other.

The Soviet Union collapsed in 1989. Neither Bush I, Clinton, or anyone else with authority recognized that the next big conflict would be Middle Eastern terrorism. Even when we had to chase Iraq out of Kuwait, no one saw what was happening.

The CIA is in charge of international intelligence. They had precious few agents who spoke farsi, and hardly any presence in the Middle East. They knew some of the 9/11 terrorists had moved to the US, but had no jurisdiction over domestic issues....they sent a memo to the FBI.

The FBI wasn't in much position to investigate foreign terrorists in the US. The CIA memo was mostly over looked, and the red flags raised by the terrorists' activities in the US were not sufficient to garner much attention.

The Patriot Act that was passed after 9/11 has a lot of government over reach in it, but it did address some of the intelligence gaps by creating Homeland Security and opening inter-agency communication. And now our intelligence sources in the Middle East are much more developed.
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 9:09 am
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39578 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:08 am to
That is a bizarre story. Geez.
Posted by PhDoogan
Member since Sep 2018
14947 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:08 am to
quote:

Footage of the 1st plane is incredibly rare but it has been caught on tape


This is the only known footage of the north tower strike that I am aware of.

I spent a lot of time reflecting on 9/11 this past weekend, probably more than I have in 20 years. The events of that day were nightmarish and surreal.
Posted by SouthEasternKaiju
SouthEast... you figure it out
Member since Aug 2021
24890 posts
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:09 am to
I’m no building science guy or engineer, but I’ve tried to explain to people why the second tower fell 1st. It’s because the first tower had less mass above the impact site which put less stress relatively speaking than the second tower. Because it was hit lower, all those extra floors over the impact site meant that much more stress on the damaged & fire weakened support system / structure.

Because both planes were relatively the same size and going about the same speed, the resulting damage was similar. When they second hit building collapse, there is no doubt that the same would happen to the first hit building.
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