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Message
1
Posted on 12/28/22 at 2:41 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
No, I'm just framing it in terms that would be convincing for scientists and doctors.
You've lost your mind if you believe that's what happened with the virus itself back in 2020.
quote:
Yes.
Then why don't we have any data? Everyone knows this question is out there about the vaccines. There are credible reports of spikes in various types of mortality. Why don't we have the reassuring data that proves these spikes have nothing to do with the mRNA vaccine?
Posted on 12/28/22 at 2:42 pm to i am dan
I wasn't sure so I asked you. Can you elucidate that for me?
Posted on 12/28/22 at 2:47 pm to David_DJS
quote:
You've lost your mind if you believe that's what happened with the virus itself back in 2020.
Well, it was a novel virus. Everyone was shooting in the dark about it.
quote:
Then why don't we have any data?
You are asking me why we don't have data that confirms your view of things?
quote:
Everyone knows this question is out there about the vaccines.
Repeated mainly online. On floors they aren't really brought up.
quote:
There are credible reports of spikes in various types of mortality.
There are? From where? With histopathology slides?
quote:
Why don't we have the reassuring data that proves these spikes have nothing to do with the mRNA vaccine?
Because at this point, there isn't a consistent presentation even offered. It's just 'oh, this person died, and I'm going to link their death to the vaccine regardless of what actual pathophysiology might be at play.' There has to be something more substantial than that.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 2:55 pm to GhostOfFreedom
quote:You care absolutely 0 about a 16 year old dying and only care about whether you can use it to further your agenda on a political hot button topic
I wish these deaths would be reported with Covid "vaccinated" or not.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 2:57 pm to GhostOfFreedom
quote:The frick you do
We have the right to know.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 2:58 pm to GhostOfFreedom
Did we figure out in these 9 pages exactly why this kid dying is political?
We just ignore the actual article and assume he died for the reason that fits our agenda, is that what we're doing now?
quote:Any reason? No reason?
According to the post, Scanlan suffered a stroke on Dec. 6 due to a rare condition called moyamoya disease
We just ignore the actual article and assume he died for the reason that fits our agenda, is that what we're doing now?
Posted on 12/28/22 at 2:59 pm to GhostOfFreedom
quote:Oh, so now we've reached the point where it doesn't matter what the article tells you, you just choose to believe what you want to believe.
If you believe the cause given.
Cool cool
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:07 pm to crazy4lsu
Human beings and their offspring.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:15 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Well, it was a novel virus. Everyone was shooting in the dark about it.
So when a murder/suicide is a documented Covid death, you think that happened because it was a novel virus?
In 2019, 94.5% of death certificates that listed "cancer" as cause of death listed only cancer. IOW a comorbidity was on 5.5% of death certificates with cancer. In 2020, less than 90% of deaths involving cancer were cancer alone. I don't think that's a shot in the dark.
quote:
You are asking me why we don't have data that confirms your view of things?
No. I'm more than happy to read credible data that settles the Covid vaxx debate, regardless of what's determined.
quote:
Repeated mainly online. On floors they aren't really brought up.
You realize this statement is consistent with everything that's "suspected" about your industry, right?
quote:
It's just 'oh, this person died, and I'm going to link their death to the vaccine regardless of what actual pathophysiology might be at play.' There has to be something more substantial than that.
I'm not asking about what happens on PT.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:18 pm to i am dan
quote:
Human beings and their offspring.
Lol, then their point was retarded. Vaccine effects 2-3 generations in the future is just another form of a catch-all, just like how any death is linked to the vaccine. It is an immensely hilarious thing to say.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:18 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Why don't we have the reassuring data that proves these spikes have nothing to do with the mRNA vaccine?
You can't design a research study to prove a negative.
To date, we have no evidence of the inverse that you're fear-mongering about, though.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:20 pm to GhostOfFreedom
Can’t say I’m too surprised. Get the vaxx and these are the results you get. Oh well.
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:25 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
You can't design a research study to prove a negative.
Hypothetically -
There's a 20% spike in heart attack deaths in 30-60 yos w/o serious prior disease (obesity, heart disease history, etc).
You couldn't research what's causing this spike? So, let's say for example - the incidence rate for heart attack deaths from this population has stayed the same for vaccinated people, whether they've ever had Covid or not. But the incidence rate for unvaccinated Covid survivors has gone up 40%.
That couldn't be done?
quote:
To date, we have no evidence of the inverse that you're fear-mongering about, though
I asked a question, dumbass.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:30 pm to shel311
quote:
Did we figure out in these 9 pages exactly why this kid dying is political?
You got a suggestion of where the thread should be moved? Maybe the Money Board?
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:31 pm to David_DJS
quote:
So when a murder/suicide is a documented Covid death
How often do you think that happened?
quote:
In 2019, 94.5% of death certificates that listed "cancer" as cause of death listed only cancer. IOW a comorbidity was on 5.5% of death certificates with cancer. In 2020, less than 90% of deaths involving cancer were cancer alone. I don't think that's a shot in the dark.
So before the vax was available?
A disorder like COVID which involves immune dysregulation in a direct way is going to have lots of downstream effects. I'm asking how are we supposed to differentiate between vaccine related death and pathogen related death when we aren't seeing vaccine-specific injury patterns or even any hint at a clinical presentation directly associated with the vaccine?
quote:
u realize this statement is consistent with everything that's "suspected" about your industry, right?
That we aren't chasing unicorns? I don't see how it is a negative. Patients present how they present. That there are many identifiable markers and associated treatments that work isn't really the fault of doctors. Even at academic institutions, where the team is encouraged to chase these unicorns when appropriate, we turn up cases that are going to be incredibly difficult to link to the vaccine in a distinct way.
quote:
I'm not asking about what happens on PT.
Again, in this scenario, there is an argument format which has been used to show links directly with medications and treatment regimes that turn out to be harmful. It takes a very long time for that argument format to produce system-level data. Other than that, maybe you want to be assured that someone is taking those concerns seriously?
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:44 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
How often do you think that happened?
Once that I know of, but that's not the point, is it? It's just an outrageous example of something that was routine in how your industry handled "Covid response." Too much of your industry (led by gov't health) was dishonest AF.
quote:
I'm asking how are we supposed to differentiate between vaccine related death and pathogen related death when we aren't seeing vaccine-specific injury patterns
Part of my questioning was - is it being looked at? I thought you answered no.
Why isn't it straightforward. Seems to me you've got, what, 3 or 4 cohorts?
Vaccinated and had Covid/Vaccinated and have not had Covid
Unvaccinated and had Covid/Unvaccinated and have not had Covid
There'd be nothing gained by doing a statistical analysis of 2022 sudden deaths, etc as it relates to those cohorts?
quote:
That we aren't chasing unicorns?
If you call studying whether or not vaccines carry previously unknown risks a "unicorn," yeah - that.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 3:59 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Part of my questioning was - is it being looked at? I thought you answered no.
Because as yet, there is nothing specific to study, like I've said.
quote:
There'd be nothing gained by doing a statistical analysis of 2022 sudden deaths, etc as it relates to those cohorts?
Once that data becomes available, which usually occurs 3 to 4 years after the year in question, in these large documents published by the CDC called life tables.
quote:
If you call studying whether or not vaccines carry previously unknown risks a "unicorn," yeah - that
Well firstly, we need physical evidence of some disease pattern. We can see a patient, document their history, course, progress and intervention, and if the case is novel enough, you can get a case report published. Though once every few months, you'll see something novel, generally you won't even in cases where you have more leeway to order more exotic tests. You need to start with the accumulation of case reports for something like this, unless someone can isolate some pathology and produce the histology. Even then, you'd need case reports to begin to suggest a conclusion. That's one example of how evidence could be gathered. What I mean is that for most patients in inpatient care, the causes are more direct and identifiable and is treated as such. Thus the saying 'think horses, not unicorns' when coming up with a list of possible differentials. Academic institutions will get more novel cases than community hospitals, but still, the majority of patient encounters are for something more directly physical. I don't even know at what point we'd suspect a vaccine-related cause, especially if the vaccine was given several months before the encounter. It's just going to be low on the list of differentials.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 4:02 pm to shel311
quote:
Did we figure out in these 9 pages exactly why this kid dying is political?
“We”? It’s down to “you”.
quote:
We just ignore the actual article and assume he died for the reason that fits our agenda, is that what we're doing now?
2 articles from the NIH (one being an actual occurrence/case review) have been posted/quoted in this thread just a page or so back.
It seems that your problem is.. your problem.
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 12/28/22 at 4:18 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Well firstly, we need physical evidence of some disease pattern.
That's not how Covid was handled. And that's some of my argument. Still pushing back on the utter BS that was sold as "science" in 2020.
Besides, isn't evidence discovered by looking for it? I don't think a longitudinal would prove, for example, whether mRNA vaccines were contributing to early deaths for otherwise healthy people. But if by analyzing the data a correlation became apparent between vaccine status and sudden death incident rate, that might be worthwhile knowing and help focus work/research.
quote:
Once that data becomes available, which usually occurs 3 to 4 years after the year in question, in these large documents published by the CDC called life tables.
How did we know 79K people died of/with Covid the week ending 4/11/20 by the end of that April?
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