re: 12th Grade Girls Are Far Less Likely Than Boys To Say They Want To Get Married Someday

quote:

---

If you aren't supporting a family, what is money for?

---

What does this have to do with feminism though?

quote:

---

You think in all of those statistics of healthy traditional marriages that most of those women have husbands who don't see them with dignity and agency? Really?

---

Misunderstanding. I meant that I think most modern husbands do see their wives as having agency and dignity.

quote:

---

I think "respect" and "value," are just really tough to define and articulate terms.

---

True. It would probably be tough to reach a consensus on a definition for either term.

quote:

---

Correct me if I am wrong, you have this idea that men "get more acclaim," than women, maybe in all spheres, but specifically in a general. That, visibly in public, men are more valued. (And when I say value here I mean the classic sense - they are "seen" in a more positive general light?

---

Men get the luxury of being left alone? Women seem to be blamed for everything. You can see it in this thread - multiple people are blaming "feminism" for all sorts of societal ills but no one is willing to even define what feminisms is - except to call it consumerism, which seems like a major misalignment.

Skimming through some of these back and forth, it just seems like some of you want to put a one word label on an issue when it's a lot of factors combined. Feminism is certainly playing a large role, but it's not alone.

The explosion of birth control that is cheap and readily available played a pretty large role in dynamics changing because it decreased the potential cost of sex.

Economics.. you could write whole books on ways it has impacted this stuff.

The generational decline of test levels due to weight and diet.

SSRIs.

The internet.

You could go on for a while

quote:

---

Women seem to be blamed for everything. You can see it in this thread - multiple people are blaming "feminism" for all sorts of societal ills but no one is willing to even define what feminisms is

---

Whoa!
First, you are outnumbered 20-1 in this thread, so when you post something disrespectful (or highly disrespectful) to men, you're going to get hit in response. If you inflame a 5th of the posters to the point of inviting derision, you can say "See? You see what all these people say?"

Several of your posts here IMO are more inciting than insightful.

So let's set a couple of red lines.
(1) Feminism =/= "Women" ... Not now. Not ever. Feminism, like racism, like Marxism, like anti-semitism is an inherently bigoted POV assuming any individuals not in agreement are lesser human beings.
(2) Feminism, d/t foundational rationale, inherently aligns with Marxists.
(3) If "multiple people are blaming "feminism" for all sorts of societal ills," they are as justified as blaming socialists, communists, or racists.

quote:

---

What does this have to do with feminism though?

---

Because modern feminism told women that the only value was outside of the home to chase a career and that family, being a mom, was not worth it.

It's not the only driver, but I'd say modern feminism was at the forefront of breaking down the family. Lots of other things participated, but getting most women to stop thinking about life as a mother opened the door.

quote:

---

Misunderstanding. I meant that I think most modern husbands do see their wives as having agency and dignity.

---

So then why are we talking about this? Because only some men are assholes?

You've kind of said marriage isn't worth it for women at large and men get more value out of it than women. And that's why women are opting out.

quote:

---

Men get the luxury of being left alone?

---

In what sense?

quote:

---

Women seem to be blamed for everything.

---

You reacting generally to jokes on a male dominated message board.

quote:

---

You can see it in this thread - multiple people are blaming "feminism" for all sorts of societal ills but no one is willing to even define what feminisms is

---

As a cultural force, there are few more impactful in the modern age than feminism, and it is TOUGH to define because what started as post-suffrage access to the corporate sector has turned into a demand to equalize from all individual human inputs, all outputs - be it dollars, recognition, college degree attainment, and on and on.

Hilariously though, it's moved beyond equality into forced overrepresentation. I mean the caricature of the WNBA is a nice example of that.


Philosophically speaking it's much easier, feminism seeks to turn women into something other than mothers. That traditional family, and traditional "motherhood," is somehow repressive and that freedom exists in everything BUT motherhood.

quote:

---

except to call it consumerism, which seems like a major misalignment.

---

I didn't say that's what it is, that's just the rational, and proved, endpoint.

The word 'Woman" derives from the very first word out of Eve's mouth when she first saw Adam.

She said, "Woah Man"!! Adam responded, "Woman, woman."

quote:

---

You can see it in this thread - multiple people are blaming "feminism" for all sorts of societal ills

---

Another strawman.

Feminism is a philosophy (I'll be happy to define it if you'd like, naming specific authors and leaders).

The idea that blaming feminism = blaming women is another strawman.

I've posted many times that men are responsible for feminism. Both directly and indirectly. And I'm pretty sure you've seen me post it.

In any case, my opinion that men are responsible for feminism has no bearing upon whether feminism is a societal poison or not.

quote:

---

First, you are outnumbered 20-1 in this thread, so when you post something disrespectful (or highly disrespectful) to men, you're going to get hit in response.

---

What did I say that was so inflammatory? That studies (which you admittedly reject) show women do the lion’s share of housework? That women in general are not valued?

quote:

---

So let's set a couple of red lines.
(1) Feminism =/= "Women" ... Not now. Not ever. Feminism, like racism, like Marxism, like anti-semitism is an inherently bigoted POV assuming any individuals not in agreement are lesser human beings.
(2) Feminism, d/t foundational rationale, inherently aligns with Marxists.
(3) If "multiple people are blaming "feminism" for all sorts of societal ills," they are as justified as blaming socialists, communists, or racists.

---

Can you define what you mean by “feminism”?

quote:

---

Do you think being an elementary school teacher is as physically demanding as the jobs I listed for you? Please share the school system so others know not to send their kids there.

---

The goal posts have moved from “dangerous” to “physically demanding” now. I don’t expect you to acknowledge that women also work hard and put themselves in danger at work. Only men do that.

quote:

---

You can say it's ridiculous, but it's not even debatable. Men choose tons of jobs that women (as a collective) would never do

---

. And vice versa.

quote:

---

Well ... maybe not 40million men ... but ... your point (dating back centuries) is an excellent one, nonetheless.

---

Shouldn’t have to.

Women should already know how stupid that comment was. The fact they actually would think child birth deaths are going to scare dudes that can die every single day in their jobs is laughable. It’s stuff like this that makes me understand there’s a mental disease at play. You cannot logically think what she said. Only a person willingly avoiding reality would make a comment like that.

It’s so narcissistic.