- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
What do you think is/would be the ideal military sidearm?
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:47 pm
I found this article from September saying Beretta received an extended contract for 100K more M9s.
US Army Awards Beretta Contract
I also thought this was a very intelligent comment at the bottom that made me start to think of this topic. It's rare to find a comment with real substance and this dude had some great points.
I think a Sig 226/228 would be a better fit if they stuck with a metal-framed 9mm.
If they went with a polymer-framed 9mm, as much as I hate them, Glocks would be pretty damn cheap and have pretty good factory magazines. If they cared more about ergos, I think the M&P9 would be the best polymer 9mm.
What do you guys think?
US Army Awards Beretta Contract
I also thought this was a very intelligent comment at the bottom that made me start to think of this topic. It's rare to find a comment with real substance and this dude had some great points.
quote:
The point that is missed over and over again is that people constantly compare civilian use of a firearm to military use. Additionally, people use the, "I have a friend, who had a brother, who worked with a guy who said...", form of argument to make a point. That has the same value as, "I read on the Internet that..."
There are several very real, undisputed points regarding the Beretta:
1) It is a relatively soft shooter.
2) It is capable of better than minimum combat accuracy.
3) It has shown to have better than adequate reliability.
4) The large grip circumference is a problem for shooters with short fingers/small hands.
5) Like the 1911, some magazines are of questionable reliability.
6) The pistol itself is very large in size and weight.
There are also some indisputable facts about the 9mm:
1) It is the most popular handgun round in the world.
2) It has been and continues to be used by many police departments in the country.
3) In FMJ standard pressure loadings, it was found to be an unreliable stopper. This was evidenced by the ammo trials in the early 1900s, battlefield evidence of wounds from both WWI & WWII and by the fact that there are no major police or security forces in this country that would even consider using only FMJ ammunition.
4) Advances in design and manufacturing technology make it a very suitable civilian and police defensive round... but not in its FMJ loading.
5) All advances in design for the 9mm have also been applied to the larger bore calibers as well.
Personally, I like the Beretta, but I would never consider carrying one. The size and balance do not appeal to me. Also, I wouldn't choose one to issue as I believe there are much better choices. One of the issues that was under consideration when looking to replace the 1911 was consideration of women shooters and those with smaller hands. While the step down in caliber might address this issue, the physical grip size is much larger that the 1911 they were looking to improve upon.
A 9mm, using modern expanding ammo, in a platform that is slim enough for the individual to grip comfortably while still retaining a higher magazine capacity is a very good choice for civilian, police and military applications.
A 9mm, using standard pressure FMJ, in a platform that is too large and thick for an individual to grip comfortably, regardless of capacity is a very poor choice for civilian, police and military applications.
I think a Sig 226/228 would be a better fit if they stuck with a metal-framed 9mm.
If they went with a polymer-framed 9mm, as much as I hate them, Glocks would be pretty damn cheap and have pretty good factory magazines. If they cared more about ergos, I think the M&P9 would be the best polymer 9mm.
What do you guys think?
14
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:48 pm to bapple
1911
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:48 pm to bapple
Real gun: kimber pro covert II
Polymer: hk p30.
Polymer: hk p30.
This post was edited on 5/6/13 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:49 pm to bapple
A sig in .45 if we're strictly FMJ
Eta: or USP
Eta: or USP
This post was edited on 5/6/13 at 9:50 pm
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:50 pm to bapple
1911s didn't have a problem serving for almost 100 years. Of course, that's when people made guns for quality and not the lowest common denominator.
And frick that POS M9. I hate that thing.
Sig is a good choice. HK would work too.
Why not S&W? Let an American company do it.
And frick that POS M9. I hate that thing.
Sig is a good choice. HK would work too.
Why not S&W? Let an American company do it.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:50 pm to bapple
Colt SAA
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:52 pm to Boats n Hose
Smith and wesson M&P.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:54 pm to bapple
The guy made a pretty informative comment to the article. In addition to what he said though, people often times forget that the M9 isn't the primary weapon outside the wire. Its not like guys are going on patrol toting their M9 clearing rooms and taking out Taliban, they have a rifle.
Yeah, the stopping power may be a little less than desirable, but like my 1st Sgt told me once, "If you have to pull that thing out and use it Brass, you're already having a really shitty day."
Yeah, the stopping power may be a little less than desirable, but like my 1st Sgt told me once, "If you have to pull that thing out and use it Brass, you're already having a really shitty day."
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:56 pm to DrTyger
quote:
Why not S&W? Let an American company do it.
Well if they're looking for low-priced, Glock is probably the best choice.
But like I said the M&P would be a great fit if they wanted an ergonomic handgun.
And all of mine are contingent on them sticking with 9mm.
And when will our military leave the stone age and use expanding ammo?
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:57 pm to bapple
A judge, of course
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:58 pm to bapple
quote:
And when will our military leave the stone age and use expanding ammo?
Wasn't it outlawed in the Geneva convention or some shite. I think that's why LE uses it but military doesn't.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 9:59 pm to SmackoverHawg
You are correct.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:00 pm to brass2mouth
I've never served, but I'm pretty sure sidearms in combat units are an afterthought. Like Brass said, if your rifle goes down and you have to pull a handgun out, you're in trouble.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:02 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Wasn't it outlawed in the Geneva convention or some shite. I think that's why LE uses it but military doesn't.
Hague Convention actually.
Wiki Hague Convention
The problem I have is when civilized countries try to make war "civilized" the uncivilized countries could not care less. It is about as dumb as trying to pass laws hoping that criminals will follow them. Terrorists do not care because they hate everything we stand for and will do anything in their power to destroy us. So why not start slinging expanding ammo at them?
The only round I know of that the military uses that expands is the Sierra open-tipped Match round. Since it is just an "open-tipped" round and not considered a JHP, they are allowed to use it.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:05 pm to Yat27
quote:
I'm pretty sure sidearms in combat units are an afterthought
It is really. In all honesty, more civilians talk about what the military should or shouldn't do/buy/have than I experienced when I was active duty.
Yeah, we all bullshitted about X, Y, or Z, but it seems like the civilian populous are more concerned with it that we were.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:07 pm to bapple
I remember dumbasses in highschool talkn bout how badass a full metal jacket was cuz that's what the military used. Still hear that stupid shite from time to time.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:09 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
I remember dumbasses in highschool talkn bout how badass a full metal jacket was cuz that's what the military used. Still hear that stupid shite from time to time.
Video games perpetuate that same fallacy. For example, when you would choose FMJ in Call of Duty, the "damage" your round did would increase. Pretty backwards, right?
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:12 pm to bapple
Thats b/c you start out with ceramic bullets bap.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:14 pm to bapple
Well, a FMJ round would probably fair better on an armored target, perhaps 
This post was edited on 5/6/13 at 10:15 pm
Posted on 5/6/13 at 10:17 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Well, a FMJ round would probably fair better on an armored target, perhaps
That is one advantage. I shot some at a metal target one time and f$%ked it up. I thought I was missing but it was going right through it.
Page 1 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News