re: Taurus's new Judge

Oh, Im not pointing blame at anyone, I was just wondering if anyone had a source for that depth requirment?

FWIW: I recently blasted some pened hogs up to about 100 lbs from approximately 4-6 ft away with 2 3/4 12 gauge # 2 Steel shot from a 26" Benelli Super Nova. Those little BB's penetrated skin, bone, brain, throat, sternum, and the bottom of the cage with a single shot. Hell on a few of the hogs the wad was so deep in the skull I couldnt retrieve it. On the small ones there was litte to no head left. Each one had approximately a 1.5 inch jagged entry hole.

I would be interested to see what the judge does at that range with buck shot and even heavy steel loads as mentioned. Obviously my duck gun was going to do alot of damage but I was VERY impressed with the carnage.


If I get the chance to test this gun on some porcine intruders I will post pics and details.

Most? OK, but this isn't a campaign to get anyone to switch. Look, it's a popular gun. You don't get it and can't deal with that. It's hilarious to watch though. Please continue.

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TigerOnThe Hill

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No offense, but that's typical bullshite I'd expect from some of those studies.

How many people have been killed by far less than that 12inch penetration? And because of a single hi profile incident with very specific circumstances, an entire new standard is to set and adhered to?

This sounds very much like the FBI commissioning a study for a newer handgun caliber (i.e. the 10mm/40S&W) because their agents were not proficient enough in their shooting skills.
Instead of spending money on increasing that skill and training, they look for a statistical number in a lab to fix things like its a magic wand.

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How many people have been killed by far less than that 12inch penetration?

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Well, how many people have not?

Remember, in pretty much every gun and ammo discussion, the underlying theme is maximizing the effect in the face of grave danger, especially to account for factors like less than optimum aim, thick clothing, and physiological factors that could make a threat harder to eliminate.

So, oftentimes the discussion may border on splitting hairs in many respects, but is overall, a matter of accounting for the unknown.

Would a Judge be effective against a home intruder? Probably. Hell, even the sight of it levelled at you or the birdshot round, would be enough to send an attacker on his way. But when the other possible variables are considered is when it may not be the "best" gun/ammo.

All I know is that the Judge looks like a snake-killin' bastard.

This has now become truly pointless. Now the FBI gelatin test are biased and irrelevant because someone can die from a baseball.

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This has now become truly pointless. Now the FBI gelatin test are biased and irrelevant because someone can die from a baseball.

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That's certainly not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that the FBI, as all govt, LE, and military organizations, doesn't necessarily design their tests and requirements around the reality that John Q. Public faces in his bedroom, and anything they publish needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

There is absolutely ZERO reliable real world evidence that can be used to statistically determine what kind of penetration, to the inch, required to protect you in your home. Nor is there any to determine which caliber will be reliably sufficient. Nor weapon type. Etc. etc.

The bottom line is... people with guns are better off than those without them. That's the ONLY thing we can reliably determine. If my gun penetrates to 8 inches instead of 12 do I need to go buy a new one? frick no.

If I shoot a .38spl more accurately than any other gun I've handled, do I need to go buy and learn to shoot a .45ACP? frick no.

And so on and so forth.

The dick swinging over calibers and actions and brands and models is just fricking ridiculous.


As far as the Judge is concerned... if Old Geauxt's wife likes hers and she can hit what she aims with it, I'm sure she'll be fine. I don't think she'll be rushing to any "Officer down, multiple shots fired" calls with it.

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All I know is that the Judge looks like a snake-killin' bastard.

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Bingo.

Great gun; not for self defense.

Just how pissed off are the folks breaking into yalls houses?

The guy coming into my house is looking for easy pickings or to rape my wife or something like that.....a .410 with buck shot in his arse from 10-15 feet will make enough racket and hurt him enough to get him out of there...and that is what I would want, him goe....I can deal with hunting him down and shooting a basketball size hole in his gut later.

If a judge makes folks comfortable, so be it.

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from 10-15 feet will make enough racket and hurt him enough to get him out of there.

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How many people have you talked to that have been shot? I actually agree with your loud noise theory in that I feel like most intruders will be repelled simply by the muzzle flash alone, but many people report being shot and not even knowing they were hit. Granted, people have been killed by .22 bullets, but I have seen a guy with a 38 to the head who walked out of the bar and went home for a nap. Maybe the guy that breaks into your bedroom window is the one that is a fearful person who hasn't had any drugs or alcohol to effect his decision making. Maybe he's had a couple hits of meth and a fifth of ole crow. From across the room, I would worry about my wife hitting a guy climbing in his window. I would hope the first shot would change his mind, but if not I am quite sure that the next couple, as he got closer, would put such a large hole in his sorry arse that he would have no choice but to lie on the floor and bleed to death while an 80 lb dog ate his arse up. If she wants, we'll go out the next day and I'll let her shoot snakes with my frickING 22 REVOLVER.

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f a judge makes folks comfortable, so be it.

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Fine, but don't suggest one to someone who is looking for a self defense handgun. They may believe you know what you're talking about.