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Started By
Message
re: Springfield vs. Colt - talking 1911s
Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:02 am to LSUnowhas2
Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:02 am to LSUnowhas2
quote:
I posted the topic because there are some folks on this board (talking about Bapple, King Ranch etc.)
Just need to go ahead and have a stickied Bapple 1911 video, with special guest KR. Sponsored in part by Papa John's pizza and Miller Lite.
2
Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:05 am to LSUnowhas2
quote:The better reason is, the next fire is not dependant on the previous one.
and this is not bullshite. The design of a revolver is inherently more reliable than a semi-auto if for no other reason than there are far less moving parts.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:06 am to Soul Gleaux
quote:
Just need to go ahead and have a stickied Bapple 1911 video, with special guest KR. Sponsored in part by Papa John's pizza and Miller Lite.
Probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:07 am to AlxTgr
quote:
The better reason is, the next fire is not dependant on the previous one.
This too!
Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:08 am to Jma313
quote:
in combat I would want a .45 that can hold 15+1. Glock, Springfield, sig, S&W all have semi-auto pistols that can do this better than a 1911
Well, if you were in combat you better enjoy that Beretta 92 then.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:10 am to Jma313
quote:
In combat I want the following:
a radio to call in air strike
Posted on 9/11/13 at 11:33 am to Soul Gleaux
quote:
Just need to go ahead and have a stickied Bapple 1911 video, with special guest KR. Sponsored in part by Papa John's pizza and Miller Lite.
I will happily accept a pizza and a cold one. Oh yea, and KR can come too.
The reason, for me at least, that a revolver is inherently more reliable is that it doesn't rely on the power/construction/material/etc. of the cartridge to fire the next round. They are still mechanical and can fail but do have fewer moving parts, thus making the design a bit more rugged.
Then again, I have seen very few semi autos have failures nowadays. There are some very high quality semi autos on the market that do a great job with function and form. My S&W M&P, my Ruger SR9c, and my Beretta 90 two have all been very reliable, rugged handguns.
For a combat handgun I would also take capacity over other factors. Then again, if I am in "combat" I would question why I don't have a primary rifle or shotgun. But my go-to handgun is most likely my Beretta 90 two due to ease of finding parts (military mags and such). If that isn't a factor, my M&P40 is my favorite pick.
As for the OP and 1911s, I have fired both a Colt Combat Elite (I think that's the kind it was) and a Springfield Operator 2. Both had very good fit and finishes and felt a bit smoother than my S&W1911. Not to badmouth my 1911, but Springfield and Colt have been making 1911s for longer so it is expected that their build quality and fit is a bit better. I wouldn't hesitate to buy either.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 12:03 pm to bapple
Just look at the history of combat hand guns, it goes from wheel gun to auto. Dont get me wrong i love wheel guns, but you never see a pict of a guy in Afghanistan with a 7" SW.
Also timing on a revolver is very important, if it is off just a hair that gun will explode,
m1917
Also timing on a revolver is very important, if it is off just a hair that gun will explode,
m1917
Posted on 9/11/13 at 12:25 pm to bapple
quote:
bapple
Tldr
Posted on 9/11/13 at 1:02 pm to ninthward
quote:
but you never see a pict of a guy in Afghanistan with a 7" SW.
I think that mostly is due to the weight, width, and capacity of a revolver. It's much easier to tote around ammo in magazines than moon clips. But you definitely have a point.
quote:
Also timing on a revolver is very important, if it is off just a hair that gun will explode,
Good point.
JAB,
. 
Posted on 9/11/13 at 1:05 pm to ninthward
quote:
you never see a pict of a guy in Afghanistan with a 7" SW.
Revolvers are generally pretty crappy combat guns. They're very heavy, difficult to reload, and don't handle getting beat up very well.
Semi-autos can hold an asspile of rounds and reload very quickly. The plastic ones also tend to handle a beating pretty well as well.
If you think you'll need more than 6 shots and don't need a ton of horsepower, an auto is much better.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 2:16 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I own both a Springfield (MC Operator) and a Colt (Series 80 1991). Mind you these are two very different 1911's but I find that the Springfield is head and shoulders above the Colt in fit and finish. The Colt has a lot of sharp edges. But my Colt is a Colt and it sure as hell as the cool factor
Posted on 9/11/13 at 2:18 pm to LSUnowhas2
quote:
To summarize the guy said that even in the entry level SA models the steel used for the various parts was of a higher quality than even some of the more expensive Colt models.
I'd love to know how he came to this conclusion.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 3:43 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I'd love to know how he came to this conclusion.
I thought about this too. The only way I can think that he would know that is either if they got the information from someone at SA or someone actually tested the steel being used by both manufacturers.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 6:00 pm to LSUnowhas2
quote:
I thought about this too. The only way I can think that he would know that is either if they got the information from someone at SA or someone actually tested the steel being used by both manufacturers.
Again, I highly doubt Colt's steel is somehow inferior. I have been following Colt for a long time. They actually use their steel quality / forged parts as a marketing campaign for their guns. The 2013 Colt catalog has a 1911 on the cover sitting on top of a pile of frame forgings.
Colt has probably been subjected to the gun store rumor mill more than any other manufacturer over the years. Yet somehow they still sell every gun they make.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 6:02 pm to purpleNgoldsaint
quote:
the Springfield is head and shoulders above the Colt in fit and finish. The Colt has a lot of sharp edges
Sharp, crisp edges are almost always indicative of a superior polish job.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 6:09 pm to LSUnowhas2
quote:
The design of a revolver is inherently more reliable than a semi-auto if for no other reason than there are far less moving parts.
But when a revolver jams, it's probably going back to the factory.
When a semiauto jams, we do a TRB -- takes about two seconds.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realize that most people working at a gun shop have no fricking clue what they are talking about right? I mean these are the same people that suggest to women that an air weight .38 spcl are a great first gun. These are the same people who say revolvers are super reliable (which is complete bullshite). Don't believe a word those idiots say. Both Springfield and Colt make quality guns its just what you decide you like better and if the price is right.
This is almost universally true.
Today's top tier semiautos are as reliable as today's top tier revolvers. Keep 'em reasonably clean and they are GTG. Getting all wrapped around the axle about one or the other is a fanboy issue.
The top tier semiautos that hold 15-18 rounds, and facilitate fast reloads, are (for many) a better choice than a revolver. Then again, if you have a skill set comparable to Jerry Miculek, I'd say you'll be fine with a six-shot revolver.
The real answer is to (1) buy a quality handgun, (2) get some serious training from a top-tier instructor and (3) practice regularly. This will separate the competent gun owners from the internet fanboys.
This post was edited on 9/11/13 at 8:20 pm
Posted on 9/11/13 at 6:12 pm to dawg23
quote:
But when a revolver jams, it's probably going back to the factory
I've seen them lock up. It's never been THAT serious. Once it was a bullet that jumped crimp and the other time a rim got under the extractor. Neither was very difficult to fix. Going back to the factory isn't a jam, that's broke. A broke semi is going back to the factory as well.
Posted on 9/11/13 at 6:13 pm to dawg23
quote:
But when a revolver jams, it's probably going back to the factory.
I have been shooting revolvers 30 years. Have yet to see one that jammed and had to be sent to the factory. As above: broken is broken regardless the platform.
This post was edited on 9/11/13 at 6:25 pm
Posted on 9/11/13 at 8:41 pm to weagle99
I stand corrected -- "broken" is sometimes a better description than "jammed."
I've seen two recently that broke. And I've seen a few jams. I'm talking about ejector rods that loosen up and "back out," unburned powder under the extractor that causes the gun to "bind up,"etc. Even if the owner can fix these things, it will take a lot longer than a TRB -- it could take long enough for the owner to get himself all killed.
Simple maintenence and cleaning will virtually always prevent these types of jams -- but lots of folks don't clean their handguns (revolvers or semiautos) thoroughly.
I wasn't "attacking" revolvers. But I see a lot of them in my classes, and in private lessons. Revolvers can break//jam. I also see cheap semiautos (Taurus, Sigma, Kel-Tec) jam all the time.
Top tier "combat" semiautos (M&P, Glock, SIG, HK) seem to tolerate dirt//crud better than revolvers. I've never seen a Glock or M&P jam (I know it happens -- I just haven't seen it).
I have seen one Glock 19 that the "final owner" (gun was purchased used) fired 133,000 round through without a jam. That gun had so little cleaning and so little lubrication that it should have jammed occasionally//frequently. But it didn't.
All of my handguns are for SD. So I tend to judge handguns in that light (as opposed to target guns). Good revolvers are great weapons. So are good semiautos.
I've seen two recently that broke. And I've seen a few jams. I'm talking about ejector rods that loosen up and "back out," unburned powder under the extractor that causes the gun to "bind up,"etc. Even if the owner can fix these things, it will take a lot longer than a TRB -- it could take long enough for the owner to get himself all killed.
Simple maintenence and cleaning will virtually always prevent these types of jams -- but lots of folks don't clean their handguns (revolvers or semiautos) thoroughly.
I wasn't "attacking" revolvers. But I see a lot of them in my classes, and in private lessons. Revolvers can break//jam. I also see cheap semiautos (Taurus, Sigma, Kel-Tec) jam all the time.
Top tier "combat" semiautos (M&P, Glock, SIG, HK) seem to tolerate dirt//crud better than revolvers. I've never seen a Glock or M&P jam (I know it happens -- I just haven't seen it).
I have seen one Glock 19 that the "final owner" (gun was purchased used) fired 133,000 round through without a jam. That gun had so little cleaning and so little lubrication that it should have jammed occasionally//frequently. But it didn't.
All of my handguns are for SD. So I tend to judge handguns in that light (as opposed to target guns). Good revolvers are great weapons. So are good semiautos.
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