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Started By
Message
re: rifle scopes holding zeros
Posted on 1/15/25 at 10:53 pm to saintsfan1977
Posted on 1/15/25 at 10:53 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
Burris Signature Z-rings. Before using Signature rings, I lapped the rings.
Why do you lap rings with plastic inserts?
I need to make a clarification. Using Burris Signature Z rings w/ the inserts, there is NO need to lap the rings. Prior to using the Signature rings, I used to lap the the rings. It's been a long time since I lapped a pair of rings. The rings also prevent marring the scope. One can also use special inserts to move crosshairs to the point of impact if the scope has run out of adjustment. I've had to do this twice.
1
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:00 am to Clames
quote:
One thing I do when attaching scope rings to a rail base is "wet" mount by applying a little oil to the rail and clamping section of the rings
I used to do this because its what i did for machinery assembly. Personally I don't think its a good idea for scope mounting. We are dealing with dinky little screws, often into aluminum or stainless, clamping on featherweight aluminum tubes. Using oil for achieving accurate bolt stretch on real bolted joints is good but I don't think real bolted joint assembly practices really apply here. I havent had an issue with anything since I started slathering blue loctite on everything. Since the clamp loads are so low and the fits are all highly questionable and the forces relatively low, I think some glue is highly beneficial.
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 9:02 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:56 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Using oil for achieving accurate bolt stretch on real bolted joints is good but I don't think real bolted joint assembly practices really apply here
I don't put any oil around the fasteners or threads, not even loctite. Just a small amount on the clamping surfaces because the usual coatings involved can affect the clamping strength when the screws are properly torqued. I also use a Capri tools or a calibrated Proto torque driver vs my FAT wrench now. Vortex states not to use any thread locker on their rings and they also engrave the torque spec so there aren't any questions on how tight is enough...
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 10:01 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 10:24 am to Clames
Id love to know what ring makers do to determine torque specs. I quit using torque wrenches a couple years ago on my own stuff. I will use them for other people's stuff if they want me to. Mine, I basically glue the shite out of everything and torque everything per the german method, goodentight.
I think you're right about the finishes being a potential problem. Hit em with brake cleaner and they'll often come off
My personal mounting jobs are hideous, but they work great.
I think you're right about the finishes being a potential problem. Hit em with brake cleaner and they'll often come off
My personal mounting jobs are hideous, but they work great.
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 10:26 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 11:37 am to Warwick
My go to deer rifle is my Remington Model 700 with a Leopold Vari -X II scope which is a little over 20 years old. I have not touched a bit of adjustment on it in 20 years.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 1:55 pm to Warwick
My set up is for 3 gun. I have a Burris Elite Tactical SMRS II 1-6.5x24 that has around 10k rounds thru it. I use a cheap Aero Precision mount. And I have done hundreds of rifle drops for 4-5 feet with out loosing zero. I have this setup on 3 other rifles and I always use blue loctite. I know this is a small sample size but it works for me
Posted on 1/17/25 at 2:37 pm to cajun3gunner
quote:
And I have done hundreds of rifle drops for 4-5 feet with out loosing zero
Dang man, what is happening here
Posted on 1/19/25 at 1:51 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
Using Burris Signature Z rings w/ the inserts, there is NO need to lap the rings.
I have the same rings on my custom 270win.
I have Seekins Precision Vortex rings on my 7mm rem mag.
Posted on 1/19/25 at 1:59 pm to calcotron
Them 3 gun dudes love tossing their rifles on the ground.
Posted on 1/19/25 at 2:15 pm to calcotron
quote:
Dang man, what is happening here
Notice his name? He shoots competition
Posted on 1/19/25 at 2:21 pm to cajun3gunner
That's cool to hear. I've been looking for something like that. Think it would be good on a short range hunting rifle?
Posted on 1/19/25 at 4:29 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
My personal mounting jobs are hideous, but they work great
I have an interest in metrology even though I'm not a machinist, I have precision levels, gauges, micrometers, surface plate, etc. so everything gets setup about as well as I can reasonably make it. I really would like to get a rifle capable of longer ranges in the near future and started researching optics and setups, can really go down some rabbit holes reading up on F-class stuff. I'm not looking into sub .25 MOA but there's a lot of info on setting up scopes. Interesting is that how frequently even the best optics can lose their ability to hold a precision zero, a setup that could consistently deliver 0.15 MOA groups suddenly goes .25 or .5 and nothing to do with anything but the scope itself. I'm not planning on buying Kahles or S&B glass but it seems it can be an issue regardless of price point.
Posted on 1/19/25 at 8:40 pm to Clames
Good place to ask I guess. As mentioned in another thread, got my son a 10/22 and scope. Mounted the scope today. Pic rail, then rings. One of the flathead screws that come in receiver was impossible to get out without drilling. Head just deformed right away. I figured, not much recoil and 3 other screws. Pic rail hole cleared what little of the screw head was left, so I just moved forward. Everything else is torqued and blue loctite'd to spec. Figure I'd give it a shot before overpaying a gunsmith to drill it out. Could do it myself, but don't want to screw it up worse.
Posted on 1/19/25 at 11:43 pm to Clames
General internet consensus on rokslide is nightforce, trijicon, swfa for reliability.
It doesn't take much of a jiggle of anything to mess that up. At that point it seems like wind call and mirage would be impossible to overcome to do any better? Eventually the man behind the gun no matter how good he is becomes the insurmountable largest source of error in the system.
quote:
0.15 MOA
It doesn't take much of a jiggle of anything to mess that up. At that point it seems like wind call and mirage would be impossible to overcome to do any better? Eventually the man behind the gun no matter how good he is becomes the insurmountable largest source of error in the system.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 9:25 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
General internet consensus on rokslide is nightforce, trijicon, swfa for reliability.
I've seen the same for S&B and Kahles, especially older fixed-power S&B glass. Not uncommon for the shooters that have the budget to have 1 or even 2 replacement scopes available. I'm actually now looking at an Arken EP5 as that seems to be really well reviewed and a very good value, which is more my market right now. I can always upgrade later...
quote:
Eventually the man behind the gun no matter how good he is becomes the insurmountable largest source of error in the system.
True but there's also something to be said when all those variables are eliminated to where it's either the rifle of the glass. For those chasing those small tenths of MOA in precision and reliability it becomes a matter of it's a .25 rifle with a .1 MOA optic or vice versa. I guess another factor is if a shooter can determine its the glass then they are much more likely to be able to send it back for service for small discrepancy.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 9:31 am to Jon A thon
Probably isn't going to make a big difference for plinking, I would certainly look into getting it professionally fixed later as a matter of principle if it were my gun too. I have about a half dozen sets of precision screwdrivers just for these cases, small screws, especially those made in China, are hit or miss when it comes to heat treatments so the margin for error will sometimes not work in your favor no matter what you do.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 9:39 am to Clames
I never was and likely never will be into that kind of gig. I'm more of a "land in the correct zip code at 600 yards" kinds guy. Strictly hunting.
At those levels of precision (i never knew that was even attainable), how does someone even determine what the largest error source is?
At those levels of precision (i never knew that was even attainable), how does someone even determine what the largest error source is?
Posted on 1/20/25 at 10:44 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I've been working my Bergara Precision Comp in 6GT in hopes of reliable sub .5 MOA. Without those F-class style rests, it's impossible to know if it's me or the gun right now. I admit I'm not the shooter those guys are. Even with that equipment and way better rifles and load development, I see those guys discussing the correct bullet seating depth to minimize throat erosion over 100 rounds to maintain precision. Even that small of wear changes their dispersion. I find it hard to believe you can tell it's the optic shifting .2 MOA vs. your barrel, vs. every other possible variable.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 10:53 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
At those levels of precision (i never knew that was even attainable), how does someone even determine what the largest error source is?
As much art as of science in the top ranks of these shooting disciplines, subtle changes that probably only get noticed witn a lot of experience. I imagine with many rifles and optics tested and used there are patterns that develop in zeroing that can narrow down certain issues. There are rifle builders that won't let a customer's build leave the shop unless it's basically punching single holes that are barely discernible as overlapping shots. S&B has a catalog of scopes from $4,500 - $8,000+, but a $4,800 Schmidt 5-25x56 vs a $3,500 NF 5x25-56 ATACR vs a $600 Arken 5-25x56 is probably not a cross-shopping list anyone is really going to make but I thinks it's pretty neat that there are people actually doing these comparisons on actual rifles.
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