re: Rifle for 13 & 11 year old - Update page 5

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That's alot to read.

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If it's too much for you, just don't read it. Sometimes it takes more than 1 or 2 sentences to answer someone's question.

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Doubt you or a deer (deer and humans average the same weight and size) will know the difference if either of y'all happened to get shot by any of them.

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Well, that really helps answer the OP's question, doesn't it? If you have legitimate recommendations for the OP from your years of deer hunting experience, why not go ahead and state your case for him?

Marlin 30-30.

Today my 11 year old went to rifle range while my oldest was helping uncle put out deer stands. At first my 11 year old didn't want to shoot the 30-30. Finally got him to and he did great especially with recoil pad and ear plugs. I think it is more the noise than kick.

Later that evening we did a group pig hunt but didn't see any. Went to rifle range with 13 year old to shoot. He first shot his uncle's 7mm Mag with Boss like a champ. Didn't even phase him and he was close to bulls eye. So he can easily handle the rifle. Decided on 7mm-08 and if he wants something more powerful than it will become his younger brother's gun and will buy him another.

Get the Savage Axis in .308,but also get them a .22 of some type.

7mm-08 is a great choice.

My kids and nephews have dropped many dear with that round.

i just acquired my wifes grandfathers remington 4200 in 270 that i plan on my daughters to use later if they are interested. they are only 5 and 2, but wifes grandmaw wanted us to have it and keep it in the family. i figured this would be good for them to shoot as they grow up, as it shouldn't kick near as much as my tikka 7mm mag lite

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Decided on 7mm-08

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excellent choice

I have my own opinion about the 223 and your not going to change it. Especially not comparing it to a bow and arrow. That's not even an apples an oranges comparison. That's like apples and chickens.

If a .223 is a good choice, then a .243 is a better choice.

I'm surprised it took so many pages for the topic to turn into a discussion of the 223 Rem's adequacy for deer hunting. I don't expect to change Buck's mind since it's already made up, but for other impressionable folks who might read this, I'll post a few thoughts. Fortunately, the OP's already made a good decision in buying the 7-08.

This topic was thoroughly discussed here.

My brief comments: I'll admit I fall into the "Never 223" category of big game hunters. For me, whatever the 223 Rem does, a larger cartridge can do better. Don't like recoil? Get a larger gun and use reduced recoil loads. For deer hunting w/ rifles, my minimum starts w/ the bigger 25's (e.g. 25-06); under some circumstance I'd throw in the smaller 25's (e.g. 250 Savage and 257 Roberts).

My issues w/ the 223 Rem deal w/ bullet penetration and performance. Yes, you'll see a fair number of "dead right there" shots w/ the 223, but there'll be times you don't get a DRT; when that happens, will the 223 give you an adequate blood trail? If you hunt enough, it will happen. I can tell you the 223 blood trail, if any, won't be as good as w/ a larger caliber.

I expect my deer bullets to: penetrate to the vitals from ALL angles; exit nearly all the time (exception would be a "Texas heart shot"); break down the shoulder(s), when necessary, and still exit; reliably expand. When that once in a lifetime buck steps out at 100 yards at near dark in a heavily wooded oak bottom and the only shot you have is w/ the deer angling away sharply so that the bullet will need to enter at the paunch to angle into the chest to quickly kill the deer, are you really going to say to yourself, "I'm sure glad I have my 223 Rem instead of a 7-08??" Yes, bullet placement is important, but it's not everything. A well placed shot w/ an inadequate bullet will probably result in a slower kill than necessary.

For anyone who's interested in how bullets kill game and an analysis of various calibers and bullets, you'll find this info very interesting. "Effective Game Killing."