A question about .223 that will likely annoy some

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why is it considered inadequate?

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What is the internet alex

I have used it. It works. I would never shoot one with fmj though lol.

.22 long rifle is enough for deer in the right hands.

But probably 50% of deer rifles out there, regardless of caliber, are not in the right hands, so the government believes that bigger is better.

Last Saturday. 200#
Stan Chen loads with Barnes 70gr tsx

Same reason people think head shots are ethical.

Because your can give yourself a substantial increase in terminal performance on deer size game for a neglible increase in recoil from other traditional deer calibers. A .223 leaves very little margin for error, and if you're responsible will force you to pass on shots you would be able to take with a harder hitting caliber. Small or no exit holes, difficult tracking jobs, etc.

Relying on the bang flop is going to burn you eventually. You're a grown man so do as you wish. I'm not a fan of people buying one for their inexperienced kid.

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Stan Chen loads with Barnes 70gr tsx

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That's good stuff. Basically military brown tip. Really good out of SBRs actually.

I will add that I took that deer at 40 yards, so was very confident in the shot and what the result would be. Was hunting out of one of our crossbow stands.

I'll admit I fall into the "Never 223" category of big game hunters. For me, whatever the 223 Rem does, a larger cartridge can do better, and do so w/o bad baggage. Don't like recoil? Get a larger gun and use reduced recoil loads. For deer hunting w/ rifles, my minimum starts w/ the bigger 25's (e.g. 25-06); under some circumstance I'd throw in the smaller 25's (e.g. 250 Savage and 257 Roberts).

My issues w/ the 223 Rem deal w/ bullet penetration and performance. Yes, you'll see a fair number of "dead right there" shots w/ the 223, but there'll be times you don't get a DRT; when that happens, will the 223 give you an adequate blood trail? It sounds like you've never had to help blood trail a 223 shot deer. If you hunt enough, it will happen. I've done it before and can tell you the blood trail wont be as good as w/ a larger caliber. The heavier 223 bullets in a fast twist barrel should penetrate better than varmint bullets, but it's still a very small diameter bullet.

I expect my deer bullets to: penetrate to the vitals from ALL angles; exit nearly all the time (exception would be a "Texas heart shot"); break down the shoulder(s) and still exit; reliably expand. When that once in a lifetime buck steps out at 100 yards at near dark in a heavily wooded oak bottom and the only shot you have is w/ the deer angling away sharply so that the bullet will need to enter at the paunch to angle into the chest, are you really going to say to yourself, "I'm sure glad I have my 223 Rem instead of a 308??" Yes, bullet placement is important, but it's not everything. A well placed shot w/ an inadequate bullets will probably result in a slow kill.

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I've always used .223 fmj or varmint loads to kill deer. Both rarely exit, but both typically shred the heart and lungs.

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I'd never use a 223 varmint bullet on a deer hunt unless I was making a neck or head shot. On a chest shot, a varmint bullet can be expected to make a broad shallow wound, possibly not penetrating deeply enough. FMJ bullets are illegal for hunting big game in many states. Strangely enough, this article says FMJ bullets can increase the wounding of 223 on medium game. Tumbling 223 FMJ bullets

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I've never had a deer run off from a .223 hit.

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Either you've not hunted enough yet, you've been very selective w/ your shots or you've been lucky.

For anyone who's interested in how bullets kill game and an analysis of various calibers and bullets, you'll find this info very interesting. Effective game killing.

Why not just use a .22? Or a .204? Or a .17HMR Or a 9mm? Or a spear?

All will kill deer.


You use bigger calibers because your margin of error goes up considerably and less than ideal shot placement is still lethal with good blood trails But to each his own.