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Message
re: Open fields doctrine is being challenged in Louisiana
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:09 pm to White Bear
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:09 pm to White Bear
I infer from your lack of a retort that you think I’m right. :)
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:32 pm to terriblegreen
quote:
Land owners have a tendency to take care of their property and to hunt in a manner which will grow wildlife populations.
This is the case for non migratory game, but that is not the case as much with migratory game.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:54 pm to turkish
quote:“infer” (assume) as you please
I infer from your lack of a retort that you think I’m right. :)
Posted on 3/7/24 at 6:53 pm to BruslyTiger
Sadly, I have lost much respect for LEO’s and Wardens over the past few years.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:26 am to BruslyTiger
People need to start booby trapping their land and let Darwin do his thing
Posted on 3/8/24 at 6:10 am to Oneforthemoney
That would be illegal.
Now shaping your roads so a 3/4 ton has zero chance of staying on top if it's been raining... And digging the edges a few feet deep. Perfectly legal.
Now shaping your roads so a 3/4 ton has zero chance of staying on top if it's been raining... And digging the edges a few feet deep. Perfectly legal.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 6:12 am to BruslyTiger
My dad had a childhood friend who got rich and bought a private duck hunting property in South Arkansas.
They would lock the gate and it was 2 1/2 to 3 miles down an old dirt road to the camp, all posted and marked private.
Freaking Green Jeans would show up at the camp 2-3 times a year checking everyone, they would walk in.
They would lock the gate and it was 2 1/2 to 3 miles down an old dirt road to the camp, all posted and marked private.
Freaking Green Jeans would show up at the camp 2-3 times a year checking everyone, they would walk in.
This post was edited on 3/8/24 at 6:21 am
Posted on 3/8/24 at 6:58 am to The Torch
There would likely have to be some major changes in the members of the SCT to change the open fields doctrine.
Conservative justices embraced it in Oliver v. US (1984). That case arose when state police went to a farm to investigate a weed tip. Arriving at the farm, they drove past Oliver's house to a locked gate with a "No Trespassing" sign. A footpath led around one side of the gate. The agents walked around the gate and along the road for several hundred yards, passing a barn and a parked camper. At that point, someone standing in front of the camper shouted: "No hunting is allowed, come back up here." The officers shouted back that they were Kentucky State Police officers, but found no one when they returned to the camper. The officers resumed their investigation of the farm and found a field of weed over a mile from Oliver's home.
The conservative justices said the search did not violate the 4th Amendment because, using strict construction, it applies only to to "persons, houses, papers, and effects", so it does not extend to the open fields as held earlier in Hester v. United States. They also said that steps taken to protect privacy, such as planting the weed on secluded land and erecting fences and "No Trespassing" signs around the property, did not establish that expectations of privacy in an open field are legitimate in the sense required by the Fourth Amendment.
Only liberals Marshall, Brennan, and Stevens dissented.
Some of the conservatives now on the court are big on respecting property rights, but they also find every excuse to justify a search that finds drugs, so I don't see them completely tossing open fields any time soon.
This is another example of how the war on drugs has resulted in fewer constitutional rights for everyone. Go read traffic stop and auto search cases if you have any doubt.
Now a state supreme court could hold that the state constitution provides greater protection, and that could take away the open fields doctrine for state agents. But LA has elected a pretty "tuff on crime" majority that hasn't shown a proclivity for expanding con rights at the expense of law enforcement. So good luck.
Conservative justices embraced it in Oliver v. US (1984). That case arose when state police went to a farm to investigate a weed tip. Arriving at the farm, they drove past Oliver's house to a locked gate with a "No Trespassing" sign. A footpath led around one side of the gate. The agents walked around the gate and along the road for several hundred yards, passing a barn and a parked camper. At that point, someone standing in front of the camper shouted: "No hunting is allowed, come back up here." The officers shouted back that they were Kentucky State Police officers, but found no one when they returned to the camper. The officers resumed their investigation of the farm and found a field of weed over a mile from Oliver's home.
The conservative justices said the search did not violate the 4th Amendment because, using strict construction, it applies only to to "persons, houses, papers, and effects", so it does not extend to the open fields as held earlier in Hester v. United States. They also said that steps taken to protect privacy, such as planting the weed on secluded land and erecting fences and "No Trespassing" signs around the property, did not establish that expectations of privacy in an open field are legitimate in the sense required by the Fourth Amendment.
Only liberals Marshall, Brennan, and Stevens dissented.
Some of the conservatives now on the court are big on respecting property rights, but they also find every excuse to justify a search that finds drugs, so I don't see them completely tossing open fields any time soon.
This is another example of how the war on drugs has resulted in fewer constitutional rights for everyone. Go read traffic stop and auto search cases if you have any doubt.
Now a state supreme court could hold that the state constitution provides greater protection, and that could take away the open fields doctrine for state agents. But LA has elected a pretty "tuff on crime" majority that hasn't shown a proclivity for expanding con rights at the expense of law enforcement. So good luck.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 7:00 am to The Torch
Just an FYI, Tom is suing for one dollar and to have the state constitution recognized and enforced.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 8:21 am to White Bear
quote:
dove hunting over baited field he didn’t know was baited.
I assume this is a true statement in this case but it is often a lot like guys in prison are always innocent. Have you ever heard of anyone caught hunting over a baited field who said "Well, I guess you caught me"? It's like when the cop asks you "Do you know how fast you were going?"

Posted on 3/8/24 at 8:25 am to Scrowe
quote:
This is the case for non migratory game, but that is not the case as much with migratory game.
Literally every person I know or have heard of who has acres of substantial waterfowl ground is really big on conservation, limiting pressure, has refuges for the ducks, etc
Posted on 3/8/24 at 8:31 am to Twenty 49
quote:For me, this is important. The part of all this that bothers me is when they do it based upon nothing.
investigate a weed tip
Posted on 3/8/24 at 11:33 am to BruslyTiger
quote:
Tom also manages the property for wildlife conservation, recreation, and multiple other uses as well.
Tom owns the land and timber, NOT the wildlife upon it. Hence, wardens can legally check properties to see if any and all regulations are being followed.
If Tom wants to high fence his property, and then purchase his own wildlife then that's his perogative. He must first drive or export the STATE OWNED wildlife off his land.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 11:48 am to boudinman
If game wardens had suspicion of wrong doing, they can get a warrant from a judge over the phone almost instantly and then it would be a legal search, but without they are ignoring the fourth amendment.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 11:59 am to cjackson721
That will never happen dude. He doesn't need to call a judge and get a warrant to go visually check on STATE OWNED wildlife. State owned wildlife doesnt stop and end at private property lines.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:14 pm to boudinman
quote:You would understand when I come ethically harvest a state-owned deer from your stand then?
That will never happen dude. He doesn't need to call a judge and get a warrant to go visually check on STATE OWNED wildlife. State owned wildlife doesnt stop and end at private property lines.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:43 pm to White Bear
quote:
You would understand when I come ethically harvest a state-owned deer from your stand then
Are you a state-wide law enforcement officer(game warden)fulfilling your official duties? Big difference that your mind seems to small to grasp. He can legally enter any areas searching for illegal activities such as poaching, baiting, illegal trapping, etc. If you dont like it, feel free to contact your state senator and state representative and request they pass a law stating differently. Let me know how well that works for you.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 1:51 pm to White Bear
quote:Just like all those South La. baws that want to fish for State owned fish in my gated canal.
That will never happen dude. He doesn't need to call a judge and get a warrant to go visually check on STATE OWNED wildlife. State owned wildlife doesnt stop and end at private property lines.
You would understand when I come ethically harvest a state-owned deer from your stand then?
Posted on 3/8/24 at 2:01 pm to boudinman
quote:Why are private landowners guilty by default? No different in theory than a cop rustling through your house looking for broken laws. Wtf man.
Big difference that your mind seems to small to grasp. He can legally enter any areas searching for illegal activities such as poaching, baiting, illegal trapping, etc. If you dont like it, feel free to contact your state senator and state representative and request they pass a law stating differently. Let me know how well that works for you.

Posted on 3/8/24 at 2:30 pm to boudinman
Louisiana constitution already protects against unreasonable searches for private properties. Green jeans just ignores it and thinks every property is "open field."
If they were actually competent at their job they would be able to collect evidence and build a reasonable case to get a warrant for suspected violations. Instead they harass until they can find a violation no matter how insignificant.
If they were actually competent at their job they would be able to collect evidence and build a reasonable case to get a warrant for suspected violations. Instead they harass until they can find a violation no matter how insignificant.
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