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Message
re: I'm getting a new CC pistol...
Posted on 12/24/13 at 8:32 pm to dawg23
Posted on 12/24/13 at 8:32 pm to dawg23
The ammunition I carry penetrates 11.5-12 inches in clothed ballistics gel, that's penetrating far enough to exit internal organs. In the event that I have to shoot through a guys arm and into his organs like the scenario you laid out, maybe that isn't going to kill him.
Your scenarios however imply that the incredible hulk is my attacker. If I have to shoot through a guys arm, then I have to shoot through a guys arm. Since I expect my attacker to be human, this is going to make him move his arm and I've got 6 bullets left to connect with paydirt
If you face a gang of thugs then your 8 round 45 is no better than my 7 shot .380
That's a risk I'm willing to take.
I understand your prepare for the worst philosophy, but you're kind of an extremist. The ammo being manufactured today for .380 handguns will kill your arse dead before the ambulance arrives with one squeeze of the trigger. To imply that someone carrying a .380 is lazy or doesn't value their life is just plain ignoraant, or perhaps pretentious. Again, you talk like it's a pellet gun.
In all of your extreme scenarios it's going to be hard to get a kill shot with anything. What i'm saying is that if I'm capable of shooting and killing someone with a 9mm then I can replicate that with a .380 in a defense scenario inside of 15 feet with 7 rounds.
If you can't hit it then it doesn't matter what you're carrying. If you can hit it then a .380 will suffice. There's plenty of data backing that up
Again, i'm not trying to wage a caliber war here. I carry a .45 IWB half of the time i'm out and about. Your opinion that a .380 is inusfficient as a defense weapon however is off-base. One of it's perks is that it is so easily concealed and so small that you barely notice it's there. Some people are dedicated to carrying everywhere. They grab their 1911 before they leave the house just like they grab their wallet.
Other people carry most of the time. These are the people that would carry their .380 in a setting that they would have left their .45 at home or in the car. And they can feel safe doing so, because it's a more than serviceable weapon.
I wouldn't try to talk someone out of carrying a .380 like you seem to be doing, because that little round has saved a lot of lives
Your scenarios however imply that the incredible hulk is my attacker. If I have to shoot through a guys arm, then I have to shoot through a guys arm. Since I expect my attacker to be human, this is going to make him move his arm and I've got 6 bullets left to connect with paydirt
If you face a gang of thugs then your 8 round 45 is no better than my 7 shot .380
That's a risk I'm willing to take.
I understand your prepare for the worst philosophy, but you're kind of an extremist. The ammo being manufactured today for .380 handguns will kill your arse dead before the ambulance arrives with one squeeze of the trigger. To imply that someone carrying a .380 is lazy or doesn't value their life is just plain ignoraant, or perhaps pretentious. Again, you talk like it's a pellet gun.
In all of your extreme scenarios it's going to be hard to get a kill shot with anything. What i'm saying is that if I'm capable of shooting and killing someone with a 9mm then I can replicate that with a .380 in a defense scenario inside of 15 feet with 7 rounds.
If you can't hit it then it doesn't matter what you're carrying. If you can hit it then a .380 will suffice. There's plenty of data backing that up
Again, i'm not trying to wage a caliber war here. I carry a .45 IWB half of the time i'm out and about. Your opinion that a .380 is inusfficient as a defense weapon however is off-base. One of it's perks is that it is so easily concealed and so small that you barely notice it's there. Some people are dedicated to carrying everywhere. They grab their 1911 before they leave the house just like they grab their wallet.
Other people carry most of the time. These are the people that would carry their .380 in a setting that they would have left their .45 at home or in the car. And they can feel safe doing so, because it's a more than serviceable weapon.
I wouldn't try to talk someone out of carrying a .380 like you seem to be doing, because that little round has saved a lot of lives
This post was edited on 12/24/13 at 8:44 pm
3
Posted on 12/24/13 at 8:55 pm to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
Riseupfromtherubble
I'm with you on this. I can't for various reasons carry a .45, but I can carry a .380 and it doesn't mean I'm lazy or don't take personal protection seriously.
As with anything there is a balance. I talked to one of these guys the other day and he doesn't even pump gas unless his back is up against his vehicle for fear of someone attacking him.
Sorry not going to live in that kind of fear. Reasonable and prudent protection and awareness. After that I'm willing to risk it.
Lastly, If a 380 hollow point mushrooming on his butt from around 4 to 8 feet doesn't get it done then so be it.
Posted on 12/24/13 at 9:04 pm to munchman
It is an adequate weapon in a defense scenario. It's at the low end of the spectrum, but there's plenty of data, tests, and real world experiences that show the .380 will get the job done.
I imagine dawg23 is an older gentleman that wears baggy jeans or cargo fatigues on a daily basis. It probably is easy and comfortable for him to conceal a .45
If my lifestyle allowed that then I would do the same thing. There is no debating that 45>>.380
My debate was that a .380 is sufficient. I'm a young professional. It's tough to hide a .45 in business slacks or in my khaki shorts and polo.
A .380 in your pocket is better than a .45 at home in the drawer. I've got a G36, the slimmest gun that glock makes. It's a single stack .45 and it's very easy to conceal and comfortable to carry. It is still not serviceable for my entire wardrobe though, and I don't feel any less safe and secure when I'm carrying my P238
I imagine dawg23 is an older gentleman that wears baggy jeans or cargo fatigues on a daily basis. It probably is easy and comfortable for him to conceal a .45
If my lifestyle allowed that then I would do the same thing. There is no debating that 45>>.380
My debate was that a .380 is sufficient. I'm a young professional. It's tough to hide a .45 in business slacks or in my khaki shorts and polo.
A .380 in your pocket is better than a .45 at home in the drawer. I've got a G36, the slimmest gun that glock makes. It's a single stack .45 and it's very easy to conceal and comfortable to carry. It is still not serviceable for my entire wardrobe though, and I don't feel any less safe and secure when I'm carrying my P238
Posted on 12/24/13 at 9:06 pm to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
I don't feel any less safe and secure when I'm carrying my P238
You have me looking at the P238. Nice looking weapon.
Posted on 12/24/13 at 9:13 pm to munchman
I love it. I was very accurate out to 30 yards. No recoil. Very easy to conceal.
Eventually my plan is to replace it with the P938 and give the 238 to my mom or girlfriend. I agree with dawg23 that the bigger the caliber the better in a defense scenario, but like I said most aren't even in the same neighborhood of concealment ease. The 938 is only a hair bigger and it's an upgrade in caliber. The only reason I opted for the 238 in the first place was that I read a lot of mixed reviews on the 938 in terms of reliability. The earlier production guns were really finicky with what ammo that would feed and the P238 had flawless reliability reviews. It seems like sig has ironed out the kinks in the 938 now though
Eventually my plan is to replace it with the P938 and give the 238 to my mom or girlfriend. I agree with dawg23 that the bigger the caliber the better in a defense scenario, but like I said most aren't even in the same neighborhood of concealment ease. The 938 is only a hair bigger and it's an upgrade in caliber. The only reason I opted for the 238 in the first place was that I read a lot of mixed reviews on the 938 in terms of reliability. The earlier production guns were really finicky with what ammo that would feed and the P238 had flawless reliability reviews. It seems like sig has ironed out the kinks in the 938 now though
Posted on 12/24/13 at 11:24 pm to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
Riseupfromtherubble
Completely agree.
The average person just won't make the concession of carrying a larger gun. That's just how it is. I would prefer the person be armed than not armed at all.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 8:42 am to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
Again, i'm not trying to wage a caliber war here.
I'm not trying stat start any kind of war -- with you or anyone else.
But if I were, it would be a training war -- which is one for which you are clearly not remotely prepared. (Nor are most of the sycophant's of the keyboard commandos who glean 95% of their gun "knowledge" from youtube videos.)
It's certainly fine for an inexperienced, untrained individual to wander around ignoring reality. The bigger risk is that someone whose knowledge base is at or below yours might place some crdence in your opinions.
quote:
I imagine dawg23 is an older gentleman that wears baggy jeans or cargo fatigues on a daily basis. It probably is easy and comfortable for him to conceal a .45
If my lifestyle allowed that then I would do the same thing.
a. Your imagination is still in need of calibration. Sorta like me saying that I imagine you're using your parents' computer without their permission.
b. Anyone who places a higher priority n his "lifestyle" than his personal safety serves as a perfect example of every single point I have posted in this thread. Thanks for the help.
c. Merry Christmas. Have a safe and healthy new year.
This post was edited on 12/25/13 at 10:09 am
Posted on 12/25/13 at 8:50 am to dawg23
I just don't get why someone can't conceal a "bigger" gun. I wear jeans and a tshirt when I'm not working and have no problem at all concealing "big" guns.
At work when possible it's a Miami Classic
At work when possible it's a Miami Classic
Posted on 12/25/13 at 9:00 am to dawg23
quote:
Anyone who places a higher priority n his "lifestyle" than his personal safety serves as a perfect example of every single point I have posted in this thread
You missed the part where I carry a .380 when it's tough to conceal then old man. My personal safety with that in my pocket is fine and dandy, but keep fearing a pack of 20 thugs is just waiting around around the corner to take your wallet
Posted on 12/25/13 at 9:13 am to Riseupfromtherubble
Anyone who is seriously concerned about their safety should look at how much time they spend on the interstate before they worry about the caliber of their carry pistol.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 10:11 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Excellent point.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 10:12 am to KingRanch
My suits are tailored, so I like carrying a smaller gun because my clothes fit rather slim.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 10:14 am to Riseupfromtherubble
I'd be very imterested in hearing your opinions after you have actually availed yourself of some defensive handgun training.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 10:15 am to SabiDojo
I hate the euro fitted looking suits. I'm a classic beauty.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 10:17 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I posted back on page 1. Havent read a post since then. Did this post take a terrible downward spiral like most shitty threads like this one?
Posted on 12/25/13 at 10:21 am to Ice Cream Sammich
I haven't read the whole thing. I'm sure it has.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 11:03 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Ill add my scientific expertise to the conversation and set the record straight:
.380<9mm<.40<.45
I carry a .45 only because they don't make a .46
You have wimpy hands if you carry a 9mm or smaller.
Nice purse gun, pansy.
Why do they make so many 9mms in pink but no .45s?
I believe that I have covered just about every solid argument with more reason than anything posted in this thread.
.380<9mm<.40<.45
I carry a .45 only because they don't make a .46
You have wimpy hands if you carry a 9mm or smaller.
Nice purse gun, pansy.
Why do they make so many 9mms in pink but no .45s?
I believe that I have covered just about every solid argument with more reason than anything posted in this thread.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 11:22 am to Ice Cream Sammich
quote:
.380<9mm<.40<.45<357sig<<<<.357mag
FIFY
I'm of the opinion that a guy should carry whatever he personally feels like he should be carrying, be it a knife, a lawyer, or a .454 casul. Unless he lives in thugsville, the chances of him ever needing a gun to save himself from a person are slim to none. There's a much better chance of him getting creamed by a peterbuilt on his way to work in the morning.
Worry about your vehicle's safety record before your handguns stopping record.
Buy whatever you want to carry, make sure you can shoot it well, and more importantly know when you can and cant use it.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 11:37 am to KingRanch
I used to hate them too. I like them now.
Posted on 12/25/13 at 12:06 pm to SabiDojo
Thread needs more photos.
Compact pistol
in an OWB with a skinny guy bend.
Compact pistol
in an OWB with a skinny guy bend.
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