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Message
re: Do you carry with a round in the chamber or no?
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:02 pm to bapple
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:02 pm to bapple
quote:is it really that big of a fricking deal? Jesus you people are all gung-ho about other peoples carrying preferences. I'm not trying to push my preferences on you. Why do you feel the need to underhand criticize other peoples preferences?
I'm actually quite surprised with the amount of people on this board who lack the confidence to carry chambered.
I feel confident that i can defend myself with my gun that is always on me. Other posters saying shite like" Might as well leave it in their truck hur-hur" give me a fricking break.
0
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:04 pm to RoIITide
quote:
RoIITide
quote:
It's frustrating to hear fellow carriers talk like this to each other. I think anyone who carries should carry in a way that makes them comfortable.
Thank you sir. You said it much more eloquently than i did. Sorry but i get pretty pissed when threads start out with a simple question then it devolves into calling people names. Just so dumb.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:05 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I don't agree with that. You have a better chance of getting one in the pipe and firing than you do defending yourself with a rock.
Not at that distance. What you do have a greater chance of, is having your weapon taken and used against you. In high stress situations, you wont be able to react the way you do on the range.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:15 pm to meauxjeaux2
quote:
So what is a 1911 as:
To the list under this, yes that is correct.
quote:
Sorry but i get pretty pissed when threads start out with a simple question then it devolves into calling people names.
I never called anyone a name and explained myself clearly on the previous page. 9 times out of 10 a person who isn't comfortable carrying chambered is not 100% confident in his/her ability to carry it safely. This may only be my opinion but it comes from personal experience and is my default line of thinking. I understand that exceptions exist.
This post was edited on 8/1/16 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:16 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:
Twenty-one feet is the average reactionary gap. This means, if you are watching the suspect, and his hands, he can close a 21 foot gap on you before you can draw your weapon and fire... With one in the chamber. That gap expands if you are not carrying hot. So as others have said, you may as well be carrying a rock.
Meh there are several things you can do to counteract this.
1. Do what I do and practice giving ground while you draw. This should be your #1 practice scenario anyway, but you'd be surprised how many people don't do it.
2. Most important thing you can do is anticipate situations and be aware of your surroundings. Most of the time you can identify threats well before the needs for deadly force.
The "might as well be carrying a rock" argument is very dumb. The way I rack and move while drawing is almost unnoticeable. These scenarios aren't gun fights at high noon in the middle of a dusty street. Most of the time the criminal doesn't know you are armed until its too late.
Once again, if you feel comfortable carrying with a rd in the chamber I have no problem with that. However, my personal situation makes carrying without one in the hole much safer for those around me. That doesn't make it wrong
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:21 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:
What you do have a greater chance of, is having your weapon taken and used against you.
Please give a percentage increase based off research (im not saying it doesn't increase the risk im just interested to know by how much).
Also, I'd be interested in knowing the percentage increase in accidental shootings by carrying one in the chamber as opposed to not. Just a few weeks ago a buddy of mine lost his nephew to an accidental shooting. Kid was home alone and son was showing gun to his friends. Knew enough to take mag out but didn't realize there was one in the chamber, and now he's dead. I could never live with myself if that happened.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:35 pm to PT24-7
quote:
Meh there are several things you can do to counteract this. 1. Do what I do and practice giving ground while you draw. This should be your #1 practice scenario anyway, but you'd be surprised how many people don't do it. 2. Most important thing you can do is anticipate situations and be aware of your surroundings. Most of the time you can identify threats well before the needs for deadly force. The "might as well be carrying a rock" argument is very dumb. The way I rack and move while drawing is almost unnoticeable. These scenarios aren't gun fights at high noon in the middle of a dusty street.
I 100% believe training is imperative. Shooting while moving and gaining ground is a wonderful training exercise, but one that 99% of range goers do not practice.
Active self awareness is another wonderful tool, and I in no way am demeaning the OP or you for your brands of carrying. However, I have trouble believing that you rack in an unnoticeable manner. The noise, the movement, these are things that a suspect will notice because they will be on alert in any deadly force situations.
quote:
Most of the time the criminal doesn't know you are armed until its too late.
A. most of the times is not good enough in life or death situations.
B. That extra second is all it takes for them to beat you on the draw.
quote:
The "might as well be carrying a rock" argument is very dumb.
I will admit that it is not the best analogy, however, it illustrates the issue at hand. You cannot argue that one in the chamber, while perhaps not as safe, is certainly quicker than carrying without.
Again, I applaud everyone for carrying in whatever condition they do, and have not said anyone was right or wrong. I just offered my opinion, with reasoning to back it up.
Train hard and fight harder.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:47 pm to PT24-7
quote:
Also, I'd be interested in knowing the percentage increase in accidental shootings by carrying one in the chamber as opposed to not. Just a few weeks ago a buddy of mine lost his nephew to an accidental shooting. Kid was home alone and son was showing gun to his friends. Knew enough to take mag out but didn't realize there was one in the chamber, and now he's dead. I could never live with myself if that happened.
This is a completely different situation. That is a horrible tragedy, but one that has nothing to do with how you carry concealed. Gun safety and storage at home is a completely different situation.
quote:
Please give a percentage increase based off research (im not saying it doesn't increase the risk im just interested to know by how much).
I do not have numbers to support that statement, but are you trying to say that in a situation where someone can close a 21 foot gap in the time it takes you to draw and fire two shots center mass, that seconds don't matter? If they get to you and you are in a ground fight, you now not only have to worry about winning the fight, but also weapon retention. This is a fact.
Firearm retention in a ground fight... with stats
So if I have one extra second to stop from getting in that ground fight, it will limit the chance of this happening by that much. That is a risk I'm willing to take.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 1:49 pm to SaturdayTraditions
That's fine. Let's dual. You bring a nice sized rock, I'll bring a glock 19 with a full clip and nothing in the chamber. Unless you're an MLB pitcher, I'm pretty sure my weapon will be more effective than yours.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:23 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
That's fine. Let's dual. You bring a nice sized rock, I'll bring a glock 19 with a full clip and nothing in the chamber. Unless you're an MLB pitcher, I'm pretty sure my weapon will be more effective than yours.
I'm not sure exactly what point you are arguing against here, but I would advise you look up the Tueller (sp?) drill on YouTube. You'd be surprised how much ground a human can cover in just one quick second.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:29 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
In the recent course work I did from a non concealed holster people who had never fired a weapon before were able to easily get a round on target at 5 yards in under 1.5 seconds.
Thus, if you plan to defend yourself from a potentially armed assailant you need to be able to draw and shoot in under 1.5. Faster if they assailant has trained.
For knife attacks 21 ft was the old standard. Most LEO are now teaching that as a 30 ft rule. That is only 10 yards. Take a look at these speeds for 10 yard closing distance speeds and 2 sec is about average for males with some athletes capable of under 1.7 seconds.
LINK
as far as retreating and gaining distance, I would warn you to not retreat directly backward as it greatly increases you risk of stumbling and falling. If you are going sideways or angled away from the attacker (left for right hand shooters and right for southpaws) you are generally considered tactically sound.
as far as re holstering, most IWB holsters come with a recommendation to remove the entire holster, holster the gun and then replace the holster IWB to reduce potential un intentional discharge.
Thus, if you plan to defend yourself from a potentially armed assailant you need to be able to draw and shoot in under 1.5. Faster if they assailant has trained.
For knife attacks 21 ft was the old standard. Most LEO are now teaching that as a 30 ft rule. That is only 10 yards. Take a look at these speeds for 10 yard closing distance speeds and 2 sec is about average for males with some athletes capable of under 1.7 seconds.
LINK
as far as retreating and gaining distance, I would warn you to not retreat directly backward as it greatly increases you risk of stumbling and falling. If you are going sideways or angled away from the attacker (left for right hand shooters and right for southpaws) you are generally considered tactically sound.
as far as re holstering, most IWB holsters come with a recommendation to remove the entire holster, holster the gun and then replace the holster IWB to reduce potential un intentional discharge.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:35 pm to PT24-7
quote:
Kid was home alone and son was showing gun to his friends. Knew enough to take mag out but didn't realize there was one in the chamber, and now he's dead. I could never live with myself if that happened.
This has absolutely nothing to do with carrying a round in the chamber when conceal carrying. Lots wrong here but
quote:
Kid was home alone
gun not properly secured, child unsupervised
quote:
son was showing gun to his friends
child not properly trained on firearms safety
child home alone with friends and firearm not properly secured
quote:
didn't realize there was one in the chamber
all guns are loaded all of the time.
you always visually and physically check to assure a firearm is empty and then you still treat it as loaded and maintain muzzle discipline.
quote:
now he's dead
Tragic no doubt. My heart goes out to the family.
but the basic rules of firearm safety could have prevented the death. Had NOTHING to do with carrying condition 0, 1, or other way.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:37 pm to finchmeister08
Damn I'm late to this party. I keep one in the chamber because it's one less step in a stressful situation. A perfect example is the shooting in Mandeville. The shooter had to use his support hand to keep the perp off of him. I don't believe the shooter would have had a chance to rack the slide. He would have probably have been over taken by the perp. Watching that video was enough to make me keep one in the chamber.
Fastforward to 5:00
Fastforward to 5:00
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:46 pm to bapple
The point is, a gun with a full clip is very close to being a deadly weapon. A rock in the hand of an average dude is not.
A gun with a full clip and none in the pipe is better than carrying a rock. Is it ideal for every situation? No. Will it work in many self defense situations? Sure.
A gun with a full clip and none in the pipe is better than carrying a rock. Is it ideal for every situation? No. Will it work in many self defense situations? Sure.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:51 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:
This is a completely different situation. That is a horrible tragedy, but one that has nothing to do with how you carry concealed. Gun safety and storage at home is a completely different situation.
Correct, which is why I've said all along its a reason for ME to chose not to carry with one in the chamber. MY situation calls for a lot of in and out of places you cant carry, gym bags, ball practices, etc. I've been adamant that if YOU can carry without worrying about it more power to you.
I don't see people itt arguing everybody should carry without one chambered just that for those of us that feel its best for OUR SITUATION we feel its a much better option than carrying a rock.
quote:
So if I have one extra second to stop from getting in that ground fight, it will limit the chance of this happening by that much. That is a risk I'm willing to take.
This is where we differ do to our situations. I feel its more likely for me that someone gets a hold of my gun accidentally than from physically taking it from me in a fight.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:51 pm to bapple
quote:
I'm not sure exactly what point you are arguing against here, but I would advise you look up the Tueller (sp?) drill on YouTube. You'd be surprised how much ground a human can cover in just one quick second.
21 feet.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:57 pm to SaturdayTraditions
i conceal a hammer in my pants rather than an unchambered pistol.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:58 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
That's fine. Let's dual. You bring a nice sized rock, I'll bring a glock 19 with a full clip and nothing in the chamber. Unless you're an MLB pitcher, I'm pretty sure my weapon will be more effective than yours.
A... I am not that stupid to inject myself into a situation that I didn't need to.
B... It is a magazine, not a clip. A magazine is a device used to actively feed a firearm during firing. A clip is a loading aid, used to assist in the loading of a gun's fixed magazine or detachable magazine.
C... I know you won't believe me, but I pitched in the Cubs organization within the last decade... albeit only High A Ball.
Posted on 8/1/16 at 2:59 pm to Chad504boy
Posted on 8/1/16 at 3:03 pm to jdavid1
how many rounds did he shoot?
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