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WWII hypothetical: could Britain have defeated Germany by itself after June 1940
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:35 pm
If the U.S., Japan, and Soviets had all remained neutral, could Britain have defeated Germany by itself after June 1940? There was some pocket resistance left in France and some other places but basically all of continental Europe had fallen.
Based on what I've read it appears that the German industrial economy was narrowly outproducing Great Britain. But obviously there would be a lot of other factors to consider.
Based on what I've read it appears that the German industrial economy was narrowly outproducing Great Britain. But obviously there would be a lot of other factors to consider.
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:36 pm to RidiculousHype
If it was down to Britain and Germany back in 1940, with no external factors, Germany ultimately prevails.
This post was edited on 4/25/16 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:38 pm to RidiculousHype
quote:
the U.S., Japan, and Soviets had all remained neutra
No, Germany screwed the pooch when they went up against Russia. Given the model of war far in the day, they were committing the well known mistake of invading Russia. Winter does come in Russia, and it's unforgivably cold. If Russia stays neutral, Germany finishes off the Battle of London with a victory.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:38 pm to RidiculousHype
The German U-boats would've strangled the island from supplies.
Not a chance Britain defeats Germany.
Not a chance Britain defeats Germany.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:39 pm to RidiculousHype
Are we supplying the Brits?
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:41 pm to RidiculousHype
The real question is how much longer does the war go on if Germany defeats Britain?
Where do we invade from?
Where do we invade from?
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:49 pm to RidiculousHype
It's pretty well known that the Germans were working on an atomic bomb but ran out of time due to the allies winning the war. If the war drags on Hitler would have acquired an atomic device the world would be totally different today. Scary to think about.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:56 pm to lsufan1971
quote:
Scary to think about.
Bet that middle east situation would be resolved.
Just saying.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:56 pm to lsufan1971
Depends on how quickly and how mobile the the rest of the Commonwealth would have become - you have to remember that in 1940, the British Empire included a lot of places besides just the isles - even Canada and Australia were de facto part of the British fighting forces if not exactly de jure. Japan staying neutral would have freed up quite a bit of the Empire's resources in southeast Asia and India and Australia that was otherwise occupied.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 1:58 pm to tigerman03
quote:
The real question is how much longer does the war go on if Germany defeats Britain?
Where do we invade from?
We dont.
Russia now owns europe
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:01 pm to RidiculousHype
quote:
If the U.S., Japan, and Soviets had all remained neutral, could Britain have defeated Germany by itself after June 1940?
Absolutely not.
But, keep in mind, Japan was pursuing an independent (albeit similar in scope and method) conquest relatively unrelated to the German master plan.
AND, the Soviets were "neutral" until Germany invaded them, not the other way around.
The U.S. was only nominally neutral prior to December 1941. For almost 2 years we had been "neutral" in the absolutely most partisan, pro- British way, particularly after June 1940.
quote:
German industrial economy was narrowly outproducing Great Britain.
The war was about a lot more than that, even in the end. But that would have been enough for Germany to defeat the UK easily if they had no Soviet or U.S. forces to deal with.
This post was edited on 4/25/16 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:03 pm to RidiculousHype
quote:
Soviets had all remained neutral
wasn't really the Societs call
but had Germany not wasted massive resources against Russia, at worst they would have sued for peace against the Britain. Without US supplies, I doubt England would have lasted long
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:03 pm to RidiculousHype
If the war had proceeded simply as a Britain vs Germany war from that point forward there is near impossibility of British victory over Germany. Either an armistice would have ended the fighting or eventually Britain would have been forced to succumb.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:06 pm to RidiculousHype
Your hypothetical is backwards. Germany's entire reason for going to war was to strike east. The attacks on Britain and France came only after they declared war in support of Poland. Germany never had any territorial ambitions in the west, and Hitler strenuously tried to avoid war with Britain in particular. It was always about the east, and war in the west was only a last resort to secure Germany's flank for the drive east.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:09 pm to RidiculousHype
Well it depends on a few factors.
1. It depends on your definition of the word "neutral". In June 1940 the US was technically neutral. But in reality the US was already far from neutral. They were already supplying Britain with everything. If the US never entered the war officially but instead continued to supply Britain, then Britain could eventually have won if.....
2. The GB could defeat Germany in the Battle of the Atlantic. The only hope GB would have on it's own is if they could be supplied from the US. Yes, GB had a lot of industrial capacity so they could produce a lot of rifles, tanks, cannon, etc. etc. But what they did not have a lot of on the island were a lot of war materials (like oil, fuel, and rubber for example) and more importantly food. Basically the island of Great Britain could not sustain itself for long if totally cut off from outside food imports. Basically the Germans could have starved GB into submission if they were able to use their U Boat fleet to cut off GB from her imports. And without the US fleet taking an active role in the Atlantic, there's a good chance the Germans could have pulled this off. As it was, even with the US in the war it was a near run thing.
Now, having said all that, I do not think it would have been possible for the Germans, at least in the foreseeable future of 1940-41 to invade and occupy the British Isles. For starters, the Germans totally lacked the naval capability to support a serious cross-channel invasion. Had they actually tried, the British fleet would have wiped out any German invasion attempt. The only way the Germans were going to make Britain quit, which was all they wanted all along as Hitler had no real desire to conquer the British Isles, was to blockaid the home islands and starve them into accepting defeat.
1. It depends on your definition of the word "neutral". In June 1940 the US was technically neutral. But in reality the US was already far from neutral. They were already supplying Britain with everything. If the US never entered the war officially but instead continued to supply Britain, then Britain could eventually have won if.....
2. The GB could defeat Germany in the Battle of the Atlantic. The only hope GB would have on it's own is if they could be supplied from the US. Yes, GB had a lot of industrial capacity so they could produce a lot of rifles, tanks, cannon, etc. etc. But what they did not have a lot of on the island were a lot of war materials (like oil, fuel, and rubber for example) and more importantly food. Basically the island of Great Britain could not sustain itself for long if totally cut off from outside food imports. Basically the Germans could have starved GB into submission if they were able to use their U Boat fleet to cut off GB from her imports. And without the US fleet taking an active role in the Atlantic, there's a good chance the Germans could have pulled this off. As it was, even with the US in the war it was a near run thing.
Now, having said all that, I do not think it would have been possible for the Germans, at least in the foreseeable future of 1940-41 to invade and occupy the British Isles. For starters, the Germans totally lacked the naval capability to support a serious cross-channel invasion. Had they actually tried, the British fleet would have wiped out any German invasion attempt. The only way the Germans were going to make Britain quit, which was all they wanted all along as Hitler had no real desire to conquer the British Isles, was to blockaid the home islands and starve them into accepting defeat.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:11 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Your hypothetical is backwards. Germany's entire reason for going to war was to strike east
Hitler hated the Bolsheviks. Nazi occupied France was cushy compared to the eastern occupied areas.
Does England have a Stalingrad? where everyone fights to the last man. What would a German invasion on London look like?
This post was edited on 4/25/16 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:14 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
What would a German invasion on London look like?
More than likely, a shite load of German troops drowning in the straights of Dover.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:16 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
Does England have a Stalingrad? where everyone fights to the last man. What would a German invasion on London look like?
I think England has an afghanistan. Wales.
Posted on 4/25/16 at 2:17 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
What would a German invasion on London look like?
It would look like a line of U-Boats you could walk across all the way around the British Isles.
ETA: With daily air raids and hourly buzz bombs to help keep British morale in the basement.
This post was edited on 4/25/16 at 2:19 pm
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