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re: Would you define this as sexual assault
Posted on 10/27/21 at 10:08 am to Pettifogger
Posted on 10/27/21 at 10:08 am to Pettifogger
quote:To me, it’s still not a huge moral issue unless someone is a habitual offender.
And it was largely in a non-offensive context, even where it was a genuine rejection. It wasn't deemed problematic in any serious moral sense.
quote:I still think going for it, in a sense, is acceptable. One should just go for it in a way that allows for rejection to occur before penetrating someone’s mouth or any other orifice (wet willies excluded).
I just think "going for it" was socially acceptable for years and years before we decided it was now pseudo-criminal.
quote:I agree. While what was described might in a sense fit the definition of sexual assault, it’s a long way from rape or other more serious and victimizing acts that also fit the definition.
The reality is that our culture refuses to split hairs on things like this anymore, which ends up creating a stupid environment.
Then there is room here to question the accuracy of the story given the time lapse, the failure to identify the accused and allow for rebuttal, and the context of telling the claim to sell a book.
This post was edited on 10/27/21 at 10:11 am
1
Posted on 10/27/21 at 10:54 am to DoUrden
The girl was married to Anthony wiener. She’s been through way worse than that.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:05 am to lsugradman
quote:
If that’s the case then I’ve been sexually assaulted numerous times.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:05 am to DoUrden
I guess technically it could be considered assault, but if the guy read the scene as a go, and then stopped and apologized right after finding out he was wrong, I don't think it's generally something you go after.
I'd say it's prudent to be damn sure you know the temperature in the room before going in hard like that. She's also a scumbag, so she could be lying about the whole thing or omitting the part where she grabbed his dick for all we know.
I'd say it's prudent to be damn sure you know the temperature in the room before going in hard like that. She's also a scumbag, so she could be lying about the whole thing or omitting the part where she grabbed his dick for all we know.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:12 am to Pettifogger
quote:
To be clear, I'm not advocating we go back to this. I just think "going for it" was socially acceptable for years and years before we decided it was now pseudo-criminal. Not all modern progress on sex is lefty nonsense, the shift from this is how it should be (within reason).
The retrofitting of any modern ideas about sex is often nonsense though. Remember when they went after the guy in the famous WW2 victory kiss pic when they found out he and the woman were strangers and he just went for it?
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:12 am to WDE24
quote:
While what was described might in a sense fit the definition of sexual assault,
What was described is missing too much context to make any claim. What type of relationship did the two have? Did he have any perceived power over her? If so, I'd lean towards it being sexual assault as he attempted to use his power to force himself on her and force her into doing something she didn't want to do. But at the same time, he relented as soon as she rejected his advances, so it's trickier.
I'd guess that every guy here has made an unwanted advance on a girl, so we're more apt to dismiss this one. But we're also guilty of maybe no taking into account how women perceive and internalize those unwanted advances. Most of ours are likely in a bar while drunk while younger, so easier to justify and perhaps easier for the girl to move past.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:35 am to MorbidTheClown
quote:
mean, how will you know unless you try? Do you ask "hey can i stick my tongue in your mouth?"? Get it in writing? record the conversation?
Don't lead with your tongue?
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:38 am to DoUrden
First off, if it happened in DC (just making an assumption in context) it would be almost impossible to define as sexual assault since it was just a kiss. So I think from a strictly textbook standpoint, it's not legally assault anyway.
RAINN definitions for sexual assault by state/territory (DC)
That said, from a moral standpoint, I don't think it would warrant a charge either way and if I was on a jury in a case like this I'd definitely not convict. He stopped when she said no and apologized. It wasn't groping or penetrating elsewhere without her consent. She had agreed to come up to his place after dinner for "coffee". And apparently had a decent conversation while drinking coffee, so she may have given off the vibe that she was consenting in that conversation (hard to say without the context of that conversation).
The important part is he stopped when she no. That's pretty textbook acknowledging that she withdrew any potential consent.
RAINN definitions for sexual assault by state/territory (DC)
That said, from a moral standpoint, I don't think it would warrant a charge either way and if I was on a jury in a case like this I'd definitely not convict. He stopped when she said no and apologized. It wasn't groping or penetrating elsewhere without her consent. She had agreed to come up to his place after dinner for "coffee". And apparently had a decent conversation while drinking coffee, so she may have given off the vibe that she was consenting in that conversation (hard to say without the context of that conversation).
The important part is he stopped when she no. That's pretty textbook acknowledging that she withdrew any potential consent.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:42 am to DoUrden
"sexual assault" means nothing anymore.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:48 am to MorbidTheClown
quote:
i mean, how will you know unless you try? Do you ask "hey can i stick my tongue in your mouth?"? Get it in writing? record the conversation?
I'd argue these days you're probably just better off letting her make the move, because then that is her giving her consent.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:49 am to DoUrden
You can’t do this anymore
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:52 am to Funky Tide 8
quote:
I mean, it seems pretty obvious that if a male invites a female back to their home after dinner/a party that they are wanting to do sexual things. Its not like he whipped his dick out, or grabbed her tits or anything. He went for a kiss, and she declined, and he stopped, and she left.
And I don't believe that this woman, who was married to such a sick frick for so long, suffered any real psychological damage from this incident.
This. He tried to kiss her, she declined, he stopped. No assault.
Then she doubled down on dirtbags by choosing to marry Weiner. Maybe quadrupled down would be more apt. In any case, this is a nothing assault.
This post was edited on 10/27/21 at 11:55 am
Posted on 10/27/21 at 11:59 am to DoUrden
No. The only situation I can imagine where it might be considered a type of sexual assault would be if he had previously taken his shot and been rebuffed, but then did this.
In reality, I have no doubt that she was being very flirtatious and using her sexuality to get what she wanted from that Senator. Obviously this encounter was after whatever deal he agreed to was finalized.
In reality, I have no doubt that she was being very flirtatious and using her sexuality to get what she wanted from that Senator. Obviously this encounter was after whatever deal he agreed to was finalized.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 12:03 pm to DoUrden
I was so disgusted that I continued to work for and campaign for and champion for that man and everything he stands for and all of his friends everyday for the rest of my life
This post was edited on 10/27/21 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 10/27/21 at 12:03 pm to DoUrden
You miss all the shots you don't take...
Posted on 10/27/21 at 12:05 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
don't know the legal definition of "sexual assault," but that's definitely not okay to do that to someone that doesn't want it to be done, no?
He should've just stood in front of her and said "Well it ain't gonna suck itself."
Posted on 10/27/21 at 12:53 pm to DoUrden
Improper behavior in my book, not sure it reaches sexual assault.
Just because someone asks you to come in for coffee and get comfortable and the woman freely does so, is not an invitation to do what the senator allegedly did.
Just because someone asks you to come in for coffee and get comfortable and the woman freely does so, is not an invitation to do what the senator allegedly did.
Posted on 10/27/21 at 12:55 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
Initiating a kiss is pretty normal, no?
Do people here ask permission?
Do people here ask permission?
Posted on 10/27/21 at 12:57 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Initiating a kiss is pretty normal, no?
Depends on the situation and the flow of the date or whatever brought them together, and not sure shoving your tongue immediately down a woman's throat meets the initiating kiss definition. That's quite a stretch.
Look, we are making assumptions over a comment and story from one side. If what she said is true how it happened it's improper to shove your tongue down a woman's mouth. Now if he made an attempt to kiss her lips and she declined then I don't see that as a big issue.
This post was edited on 10/27/21 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 10/27/21 at 12:59 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
Double
This post was edited on 10/27/21 at 1:02 pm
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