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Started By
Message
re: Wind Turbines
Posted on 5/13/23 at 7:59 pm to Water
Posted on 5/13/23 at 7:59 pm to Water
quote:Of all the ways human activity kills birds (buildings, vehicles, poisons, house cats, powerlines, etc), something like 1 in 10,000 is by wind turbine.
They constantly wipe out birds
There is *nothing* we do that doesn't kill something. You think other power plants don't kill animals including birds? Do you think burning something like 5 billion tons of oil every year doesn't impact ecosystems and food chains?
1
Posted on 5/13/23 at 8:28 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Of all the ways human activity kills birds (buildings, vehicles, poisons, house cats, powerlines, etc), something like 1 in 10,000 is by wind turbine.
It is the kinds of birds that are being killed
quote:
Do birds of prey get killed by wind turbines?
Birds of prey are some of the most vulnerable to wind turbines, as they often spend much of their day soaring above the ground in pursuit of prey.
In the USA, Golden and Bald eagles, falcons, kites, kestrels, and hawks are among the most-threatened birds by wind turbines. Additionally, because these birds typically raise a small number of chicks, damage to their populations is difficult to recover from.
There is also this nice article
Wind Energy company pleads guilty after eagle deaths
quote:
BILLINGS, Mont. — A subsidiary of one of the largest U.S. providers of renewable energy pleaded guilty to criminal charges and was ordered to pay over $8 million in fines and restitution after at least 150 eagles were killed at its wind farms in eight states, federal prosecutors said.
This post was edited on 5/13/23 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 5/13/23 at 8:36 pm to bad93ex
As much as I dgaf about wind turbines, you think oil fields don’t disrupt mule deer, pronghorn, and elk habitat among others?
There’s always a trade off, the bird argument doesn’t ever hold any weight to me. The mule deer migration in Wyoming/Colorado is destroyed due to oil. Not to mention the prairie grouse. Something always pays the price for what we’re doing.
There’s always a trade off, the bird argument doesn’t ever hold any weight to me. The mule deer migration in Wyoming/Colorado is destroyed due to oil. Not to mention the prairie grouse. Something always pays the price for what we’re doing.
Posted on 5/13/23 at 8:45 pm to Frac the world
Two of the huge dirty secrets about wind-power is that they have the 'Goldy-Locks' syndrome.
The wind has to blow 'just right' within a certain range.
Too fast a wind speed and they have to be shutdown or they will burn the generators up.
Too slow a wind speed and they generate almost no electricity.
Natural gas and more precisely nuclear power, are 24-7, generating clean safe electricity month after month, year after year.
And the other dirty little secret about wind(and solar too), is that there has to be back-up generator plants to make up the short coming of wind(and solar).
I also have read several sources that show that in order to supply the energy needs of America, it would take the equivalent land mass the size of Nevada.
More and more people are waking up to the false hopes that the con-artists are pushing with wind(and solar).
Nuclear power is the way to go.
Its clean, its safe and it generates lots and lots of clean, affordable electricity, 24-7, month after month, year after year.
With wind(and solar) we are throwing good money, which BTW, we don't have.
The wind has to blow 'just right' within a certain range.
Too fast a wind speed and they have to be shutdown or they will burn the generators up.
Too slow a wind speed and they generate almost no electricity.
Natural gas and more precisely nuclear power, are 24-7, generating clean safe electricity month after month, year after year.
And the other dirty little secret about wind(and solar too), is that there has to be back-up generator plants to make up the short coming of wind(and solar).
I also have read several sources that show that in order to supply the energy needs of America, it would take the equivalent land mass the size of Nevada.
More and more people are waking up to the false hopes that the con-artists are pushing with wind(and solar).
Nuclear power is the way to go.
Its clean, its safe and it generates lots and lots of clean, affordable electricity, 24-7, month after month, year after year.
With wind(and solar) we are throwing good money, which BTW, we don't have.
Posted on 5/13/23 at 8:51 pm to Frac the world
And the whales.
Posted on 5/13/23 at 9:00 pm to Reubaltaich
quote:I don’t think you understand the performance indexes for most wind farms. This is an asinine point.
The wind has to blow 'just right' within a certain range.
Posted on 5/13/23 at 9:03 pm to bad93ex
quote:Gotcha so it's fine that we kill 10,000 other birds for each of these specific ones? You don't think you're grasping at straws here?
It is the kinds of birds that are being killed
quote:Is there any data that I can see regarding these specific species being killed by wind turbines vs other human activity?
In the USA, Golden and Bald eagles, falcons, kites, kestrels, and hawks are among the most-threatened birds by wind turbines.
There is a lot of out of sight, out of mind going on here. For some reason a lot of folks have no problem with the damage caused as long as the effects have enough degrees of separation from the cause. The damage dealt to birds by wind turbines is direct and in your face. I understand the concern, I really do. But the bird deaths thing is way overblown, it is a drop in the bucket vs all the other ways we kill animals, many of them very hard to quantify.
Look at it this way. Take the figure from page one of this thread which stated that a typical turbine produces enough in 46 minutes to power a house for a month. That's about 9 hours of production for a year of power for a house. How many birds do you think a single turbine can kill in 9 hours? I'd wager far less than 1 on average, likely only a handful per year if that. I'll call it 1/10th of a bird in 9 hours, which is probably a couple orders of magnitude too high, to run a house for an entire year, or 1 bird per decade of power for one house. At average consumption of ~900kwh/month per home, it would take for example 6,300 cubic feet of natural gas per month, or 750,000 cubic feet to run a house for that decade. Do you think it is in any way possible to burn 750,000 cubic feet of natural gas without killing a single bird of prey, whether directly or indirectly via disruption of the environment or food chain?
Posted on 5/13/23 at 10:02 pm to RealDawg
shite is killing whales offshore
Posted on 5/13/23 at 11:33 pm to billjamin
quote:
quote:The wind has to blow 'just right' within a certain range.
I don’t think you understand the performance indexes for most wind farms. This is an asinine point.
EIA states windmills need at least 9 mph sustained winds to generate electricity, I have read its more like 15-20 mph.
Maximum wind speeds are 50-55 mph and that is at the top end according to the EIA. Anyone who has a basic understanding of mechanics knows a device should not and cannot be operated at maximum speed for too long.
Now we know that the DOE and xiden handlers are pushing these things hard.
So its kind of hard for us to take them at their word.
It would be safe to say windmills need about 40 mph sustained wind speeds to generate electricity.
So that gives a wind speed range of 15 to 40 mph.
And as we all know, the wind does not blow continuously. Sometimes not for days even weeks.
Six grade science teaches us that the Sun is the primary force that generates wind. So what happens at night? Little or no wind.
Windmills are useful in some situations but its is NOWHERE near what our country needs to remain viable.
Once again, natural gas and nuclear power are the way forward.
Posted on 5/13/23 at 11:59 pm to bad93ex
Green energy is going to bankrupt us
Posted on 5/14/23 at 1:04 am to Reubaltaich
quote:As luck would have it, in the regions where wind turbines are typically installed the wind does blow almost continuously.
And as we all know, the wind does not blow continuously.
quote:If you continue a few more grades you might learn that this effect is mostly near the surface. They don't keep making taller turbines for the hell of it.
Six grade science teaches us that the Sun is the primary force that generates wind. So what happens at night? Little or no wind.
quote:In the regions where wind turbines are most common they produce energy far cheaper than any other source. This is a big country, we need a lot of things.
Windmills are useful in some situations but its is NOWHERE near what our country needs to remain viable.
quote:I don't have a problem with either, but they are not the end-all-be-all. Diversity is the way forward. That is the key to reliability and cost control.
Once again, natural gas and nuclear power are the way forward.
Posted on 5/14/23 at 1:57 am to Korkstand
There is a 2 year state college near Abilene Texas that has a maintenance and operations program for wind turbines. Starting salary after graduation is 110,000$/yr. Elevated work techniques is a bitch course.
Posted on 5/14/23 at 8:40 am to Korkstand
quote:
Gotcha so it's fine that we kill 10,000 other birds for each of these specific ones? You don't think you're grasping at straws here?
To me it's more the hypocrisy from the "environmentalist" who talk out both sides of their mouths.
Posted on 5/14/23 at 9:02 am to RealDawg
The marine environment is incredibly harsh requiring a huge investment in developing the means to keep the turbines running reliably.
Posted on 5/14/23 at 9:22 am to Beauw
quote:
Pardon the ignorant question, but what is the lifecycle of the blades, how much wear and tear do they suffer?
They are good for 8 spotted owls, 2 bald eagles or one California condor before need to be replaced
Posted on 5/14/23 at 10:39 am to KAGTASTIC
quote:Ah right because as we all know incremental improvement doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much better a given solution is, if it's not perfect then you're just a damned dirty hypocrite.
To me it's more the hypocrisy from the "environmentalist" who talk out both sides of their mouths.
Posted on 5/14/23 at 10:46 am to Reubaltaich
quote:
So that gives a wind speed range of 15 to 40 mph.
If only there was a way to measure the wind in an area. Then design around that, then model out the production. Might even be a good idea to attach that to the interconnection agreement and measure the actual to expected. And wouldn’t be something if that PI was like 99%? Crazy I know.
Posted on 5/14/23 at 10:48 am to Westbank111
Lol what the frick are you talking about big bankers. And chill out with the caps lock, gramps.
Posted on 5/14/23 at 10:50 am to Beauw
quote:
Green energy is going to bankrupt us
Environmentalists are like locusts. They jump from place to place destroying progress. Indoctrinated children with no rational thought.
Had we shut them up 50 years ago, climate change wouldn
t be discussed today. of course they'd be bitching about other stuff though.
They are their own worst enemy because they are reactionary fool.s
Posted on 5/14/23 at 10:59 am to Korkstand
quote:
Ah right because as we all know incremental improvement doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much better a given solution is, if it's not perfect then you're just a damned dirty hypocrite.
Are they not fair criticisms of the platform and the zeitgast of this movement?
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