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re: Why would terrorist try to come over as a refugee?
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:48 am to BoostAddict
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:48 am to BoostAddict
quote:
There is no way of knowing who these people are.
The FBI Director confirmed this, yet BO keeps spouting off that all the ignorant citizens of the US are worried about "widows and orphans".
When I saw him say that, it seriously burned my arse. For a sitting president to castigate his own citizens on an international stage shows just how much of a fricking clown show his presidency is when it comes to foreign policy.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:49 am to Salmon
quote:
but humans are generally lazy and go the easier route
No, you're the lazy one who loves to scream from the rooftops the Socratic "All I know is I know nothing" at every possible turn and on every conceivable issue. The FBI has indicated that there is no way for them to screen this number of refugees in this amount of time, so it's reasonable to have impassioned opinions on an issue such as this. Pettifogger just provided a good summary which you of course ignored.
This post was edited on 11/19/15 at 9:04 am
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:50 am to upgrayedd
quote:
When I saw him say that, it seriously burned my arse. For a sitting president to castigate his own citizens on an international stage shows just how much of a fricking clown show his presidency is when it comes to foreign policy.
He is going to be a totally insufferable douche for the next 12 months, regardless of where you stand on his policy positions. Dude is an extreme narcissist.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:50 am to Lou Pai
quote:
Pettifogger just provided a good summary which you of course ignored.
I upvoted him
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:52 am to Salmon
quote:
I upvoted him
I'm a friend to redneck and hippie alike
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:53 am to Salmon
It's more than just the issue of one terrorist finding his way past the gates of America.
ISIS and other radical groups are actively fomenting a global war. That's what they want. They say so repeatedly by their words and actions.
If subverting the humanitarian effort by Western democracies of taking in refugees will aid in their cause, and it would, then that is why they might choose to utilize the refugee migration to commit acts of terrorism.
Furthermore, the very ideology of Islam lends itself to radicalization. It's simple minded to think about Muslims as either 100% radical terrorists or 100% "moderates". The majority of Muslims, especially from war torn areas of the Middle East, support the goals of ISIS to some extent, at least philosophically, even as they resist the temptation to join in or support violence.
When you bring in Muslim refugees and add to or create new Muslim communities in a Western democracy, you are inviting problems. The cultures do not mix well. The Muslim communities often feel isolated and ostracized and lend themselves to added pressure to radicalize.
The desire to help, rooted as it is in a loving spirit, is misinterpreted by an active and motivated violent enemy as a sign of weakness and an opportunity to take advantage. That is just an unfortunate fact.
Western democracies will either be forced to compromise it's principles of acceptance for all ideogies and for freedom or they will be conquered from within or without. It's simply a matter of time and pressure. Time is running out and the pressure is very high right now.
ISIS and other radical groups are actively fomenting a global war. That's what they want. They say so repeatedly by their words and actions.
If subverting the humanitarian effort by Western democracies of taking in refugees will aid in their cause, and it would, then that is why they might choose to utilize the refugee migration to commit acts of terrorism.
Furthermore, the very ideology of Islam lends itself to radicalization. It's simple minded to think about Muslims as either 100% radical terrorists or 100% "moderates". The majority of Muslims, especially from war torn areas of the Middle East, support the goals of ISIS to some extent, at least philosophically, even as they resist the temptation to join in or support violence.
When you bring in Muslim refugees and add to or create new Muslim communities in a Western democracy, you are inviting problems. The cultures do not mix well. The Muslim communities often feel isolated and ostracized and lend themselves to added pressure to radicalize.
The desire to help, rooted as it is in a loving spirit, is misinterpreted by an active and motivated violent enemy as a sign of weakness and an opportunity to take advantage. That is just an unfortunate fact.
Western democracies will either be forced to compromise it's principles of acceptance for all ideogies and for freedom or they will be conquered from within or without. It's simply a matter of time and pressure. Time is running out and the pressure is very high right now.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:53 am to Salmon
Right, you won't actually address what he said, but then you'll wait for someone to provide some low-hanging fruit so you can show everyone how moderate you are.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:54 am to Salmon
IMO this refugee population will be a very fertile ground for recruitment, embedding into that population early would yield some type of positive results
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:54 am to Pettifogger
I've always thought you were fairly reasonable and rational.
and I'm not in the "let them all in" camp either, I just think the fear mongering is a bit much when there are easier paths to get here
and I'm not in the "let them all in" camp either, I just think the fear mongering is a bit much when there are easier paths to get here
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:55 am to Salmon
quote:
but humans are generally lazy and go the easier route
I don't disagree, but when your motivation is driven by religion, it can be an incentive.
We already know that Syrians are attempting to enter our southern border. So, it is happening like that right now. We also know that we have been hit by people here legally in visas.
It seems pretty obvious that they are taking the "all of the above" approach.
Therefore, it seems incumbent on us, as a sovereign nation that owes its first responsibility to its citizens, to mitigate potentially bad situations by any means necessary as well.
That does not mean we dislike legit refugees. But, it goes back to the old adage, "I like you but I love me". While we may feel for legit refugees, we can help them over there.
I think it is telling the UAE and Saudi Arabia are not letting any of these people into their nations.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:57 am to Salmon
We need to stop doing the things that made America great. Close the borders. Don't allow anyone else to live here. Especially refugees. They're all terrorists.
ISIS is winning, folks.
ISIS is winning, folks.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:57 am to usc6158
You're about a million times more likely to have a terrorist walk straight through customs at JFK than to import one as a refugee.
Doesn't sound like a completely made up number to support your bullshite statement, at all.
Doesn't sound like a completely made up number to support your bullshite statement, at all.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:57 am to Salmon
quote:
hide amongst all these scrutinized refugees?
Because you flood the zone - you mix in with thousands and thousands of refugees. They will come on charter flights or government ships.
They're going to have stolen passports - a lot more scrutiny is placed on commercial flyers than will be for this lot. I know you guys are having trouble believing us, but it is just the way it is.
Let me tell you how it will go:
There will be huge facilities - think the Katrina shelters. There is language barrier - most refugees will not speak English and few of our vetters will speak Arabic. So, you have to contract out interpreters. The process will be slow. There will be a pressure to get numbers up - regardless of the quality of this vetting. And they'll catch a few and send back. And there will be all these press reports of the cramped, miserable living conditions. Some will just leave before they're vetted.
And the story will be forgotten - and in 6 months, a year, 2 years, there will be an attack. And it will be carried out by some of these folks we've imported. As others have said, Paris was done by 8 (9/11 was done by 19) - so, they can sail in, walk in, fly in if they really want to.
I accept that - what I have trouble with is us going over there, picking them up, bringing them here with open arms and say, "Well, you were going to get here and kill us anyway, so we thought we would streamline the process and bring thousands over at once."
Madness. Suicidal madness.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:58 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
And the story will be forgotten - and in 6 months, a year, 2 years, there will be an attack. And it will be carried out by some of these folks we've imported. As others have said, Paris was done by 8 (9/11 was done by 19) - so, they can sail in, walk in, fly in if they really want to.
How many previous terrorist attacks were committed by refugees?
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:59 am to Ace Midnight
See, that's just a lazy opinion. It's far more discerning to say, "I don't think we should let them all in at once, but I also don't think this is the apocolypse".
This post was edited on 11/19/15 at 9:04 am
Posted on 11/19/15 at 9:00 am to TheOcean
quote:
How many previous terrorist attacks were committed by refugees?
At least one.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 9:01 am to TheOcean
As in... since the beginning of time?
Posted on 11/19/15 at 9:01 am to tigerfoot
quote:
IMO this refugee population will be a very fertile ground for recruitment, embedding into that population early would yield some type of positive results
More so in Europe, I'd guess, because you have a huge cultural shock for refugees going into the Muslim ghettos of European countries (which are teeming with radicalization). To some extent, the ones excited to exploit a comfortable life in Europe aren't good targets, but it may be easier to convince some of the ones who don't really appreciate anything about their new locale to strap on a suicide belt.
I have to think a lot of the radicals living in Europe, often on the public dole, are a tad too comfortable to become martyrs at the moment, so the fresh meat of refugees may be easy targets.
Posted on 11/19/15 at 9:01 am to TheOcean
quote:
How many previous terrorist attacks were committed by refugees?
We have to stop parsing the language like this - the Tsarnaevs were "legal immigrants" - but that was just a slow motion part of the process we're going to fast track. They immigrated, citing persecution in Dagostan or Chechnya.
And the folks sincerely fleeing are unlikely to get here and commit terrorism.
I'm talking about the infiltrators. You really don't see this? You don't see the high percentage of military age males in these photos? Why didn't they fight?
At best they're pussies who are going to come here and be leeches. At worse, they're infiltrators.
I'd say take Christians first, women with young children second (and vet them as well - they're increasingly using our own civility against us by utilizing female terrorists), and send the military age males back to fight for their country or fight against ISIS - let them pick the reasoning.
Why is that wrong?
This post was edited on 11/19/15 at 9:03 am
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