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Posted on 4/22/19 at 11:01 pm to weagle99
Because most battles create heroes and failures. We hear about the heroes from our recent battles but what the public isn't meant to know right now is the story of the combat leaders who made mistakes or even failed in some way because many of them are still on active duty and they should be protected from public embarrassment.
Warfare is chaos. Warfare is blood, fire, shite and tooth particles blasted into your face as the guy next to you gets blown up. Combat leaders are human beings and sometimes they will make a mistake and sometimes such a mistake will get some of their people hurt or killed.
They might still be a great leader and even a great combat leader. If we want to protect these valuable military leaders for continued service with dignity, we aren't going to write detailed histories of our recent battles like we read histories about how Jackson messed up during the Seven Days Battles or how Lee messed up at Malvern Hill or how Longstreet messed up by getting his attack started too late on the 2nd day of Gettysburg.
Anyway that's my guess.
Warfare is chaos. Warfare is blood, fire, shite and tooth particles blasted into your face as the guy next to you gets blown up. Combat leaders are human beings and sometimes they will make a mistake and sometimes such a mistake will get some of their people hurt or killed.
They might still be a great leader and even a great combat leader. If we want to protect these valuable military leaders for continued service with dignity, we aren't going to write detailed histories of our recent battles like we read histories about how Jackson messed up during the Seven Days Battles or how Lee messed up at Malvern Hill or how Longstreet messed up by getting his attack started too late on the 2nd day of Gettysburg.
Anyway that's my guess.
This post was edited on 4/22/19 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 4/22/19 at 11:10 pm to Obtuse1
Just jumping in here...
In WWII you had Musicians and Actors donating their time to the War Effort. example - Glenn Miller, Bob Hope, Clark Gable, Betty Davis, Duke Ellington...
During the Gulf Wars, we had singers protesting the President from stage while selling $100 tickets. Dixie Chics anyone???
My Grandfather had an old Shotgun. He used to say: "I got that gun during the War when guns were scarce and it didn't even work."
I knew he was talking about WWII.. Because he didn't say Korea or Vietnam.. He said, THE WAR, and I knew which one he was talking about.
According to the WWII museum, by 1945 the US alone had over 12 Million service members... 12 million... in the US alone.... I can't even find the number of people serving in Russia during WWII...
But what I am getting at... The numbers and involvment in WWII was on a massive scale of Men, material and commitment...
The later wars could not even compare to the numbers involved.
ANother interesting factor.. about remembering anyway... During WWII we had no television... People went to the Movies "talkies", and watched a 20 or 30 minute News report of the war from the US signal Corp and other Government media... ANd the press used to show massive support for our troops... Today a vocal protestor gets more attention than out troops by the press....
In the Later wars, you would almost have to go to special cable channels to get any war news at all....
In WWII you had Musicians and Actors donating their time to the War Effort. example - Glenn Miller, Bob Hope, Clark Gable, Betty Davis, Duke Ellington...
During the Gulf Wars, we had singers protesting the President from stage while selling $100 tickets. Dixie Chics anyone???
My Grandfather had an old Shotgun. He used to say: "I got that gun during the War when guns were scarce and it didn't even work."
I knew he was talking about WWII.. Because he didn't say Korea or Vietnam.. He said, THE WAR, and I knew which one he was talking about.
According to the WWII museum, by 1945 the US alone had over 12 Million service members... 12 million... in the US alone.... I can't even find the number of people serving in Russia during WWII...
But what I am getting at... The numbers and involvment in WWII was on a massive scale of Men, material and commitment...
The later wars could not even compare to the numbers involved.
ANother interesting factor.. about remembering anyway... During WWII we had no television... People went to the Movies "talkies", and watched a 20 or 30 minute News report of the war from the US signal Corp and other Government media... ANd the press used to show massive support for our troops... Today a vocal protestor gets more attention than out troops by the press....
In the Later wars, you would almost have to go to special cable channels to get any war news at all....
This post was edited on 4/22/19 at 11:13 pm
Posted on 4/22/19 at 11:13 pm to Champagne
I think that war was still somewhat romanticized during WWII. You had folks sneaking into the Marines at 14 years old just to join the fight. The reality is that war then was still what it is today. Nasty business where romance does not exist.
Fallujah
Mosul
Najaf
Nasiriyah
There were some pretty major things that went on in those areas. The men who fought there were just as gritty and hard charging as those who fought at Belleau Wood, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Chosin, and Hue.
Fallujah
Mosul
Najaf
Nasiriyah
There were some pretty major things that went on in those areas. The men who fought there were just as gritty and hard charging as those who fought at Belleau Wood, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Chosin, and Hue.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 12:11 am to weagle99
quote:
Many people can rattle off battles from WW2 or the War Between the States for example, but hardly anyone talks about our recent battles in the desert.
Different type of warfare? Public doesn’t care as much?
Mainly because there’re hasn't been any major battles since really Desert Storm in 91. For example, if you combine the losses we’ve sustained in both Iraqi and Afghanistan, you come up with roughly 7,000 total US deaths. And that’s over a period of roughly 16, almost 17 years. What you have in these wars is mostly small ambushes, brief firefights, or bombing attacks involving only small units. There simply are very few pitched, large-scale battles.
Now compare that to say WWII where even a mostly forgotten battle like the Battle of Anzio where 7,000 Americans were killed in a matter of six months. Then there are numerous other major battles like the Battle of the Bulge where the US suffered almost 90,000 casualties in just over a month. Hell, in World War I, which few people know anything about now, there were battles like the Meuse-Argonne Offensive where there were over 122,000 American casualties, including almost 27,000 dead, in just over a month.
Even what is considered the biggest battle of the Afghan/Iraq war, namely the Battle of Falluja, saw a total of just over 600 American casualties, and less that 100 of them were fatalities. And the bloodiest battle in the war in Afghanistan, the Battle of Wanat resulted in a total of 9 killed and 27 wounded Americans. And while these deaths are tragic and very much deserving of our total respect, these were basically all skirmishes at best.
Now having said all this, I do not think any less of the men fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan than I do of any of our men who have fought in any war in our history. I’ll even say I know they have it harder now than I had in the First Gulf War back in 91. But, as I said above, the reason you don’t hear muck about the battles of these wars is simply because there really hasn’t been any major pitched battles competitive to past wars. And that’s not the fault of our men today. Rather it’s simply a reflection of the fact their in a different type of war. They don’t face organized, fully equipped and trained divisions, corps, or armies of a country. Instead they face small bands or even individual fighters or suicide bombers for the most part.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 12:33 am to weagle99
quote:
Many people can rattle off battles from WW2 or the War Between the States for example, but hardly anyone talks about our recent battles in the desert.
Different type of warfare? Public doesn’t care as much?
The vast majority of battles our nation has fought since the end of World War II have not been on the scale of previous wars. That's just about what it boils down to.
Within the last 30 years, the only major battle that comes to mind is 2nd Fallujah - a battle which saw just over 4,200 combined casualties (655 of those casualties being American).
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 12:40 am
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:24 am to Aggies1998
quote:
Nasiriyah
Haven’t read that name in a long time. Oof
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:30 am to TROLA
quote:
Fallujah
This place was fricking hell. I would love to get my hands on material from the battles there. I just know from guys who were there and they said it was hell.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 5:51 am to weagle99
Im sure it was mentioned but many battles in modern war aren't entrenched fixed position battles. Urban combat is fluid and typically does not last as long as historical battles did.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 6:12 am to geauxtigers6492
I fought in Iraq from 02'-03' in the Army with 1st Cavalry Division. There are plenty of battles and images from Operation Iraqi Freedom that are ingrained in our consciousness. How can anybody forget "Shock and Awe"?? One of the best images from the fall of Baghdad and Sadam Hussein was the people of Iraq toppling his statues. Those pics are history. Also, the Battle of Fallujah!! This battle is one of the craziest things i have ever experienced....even if from a distance. We were tasked with setting up a perimeter outside of the city for 10 days. To watch our brothers from the Air Force absolutely level that city and then our brothers from Marines and Army battle it out was gut wrenching. My hope is that one day, they will make a movie about what happened in Fallujah. The bloodiest battle in the war in Iraq. Those who fought and died deserve to have their story told.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 6:14 am
Posted on 4/23/19 at 6:26 am to weagle99
The only significant thing about Desert Storm was the Highway of Death. There wasn't even a spine to break.
quote:
The attack began when A-6 Intruder attack jets of the United States Marine Corps' 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing blocked the head and tail of the column on Highway 80, bombarding a massive vehicle column of mostly Iraqi Regular Army forces with Mk-20 Rockeye II cluster bombs, effectively boxing in the Iraqi forces in an enormous traffic jam as the turkey shoot began in earnest, setting up targets for subsequent airstrikes. Over the next 10 hours, scores of U.S. Marine and U.S. Air Force aircraft and U.S. Navy pilots from USS Ranger (CV/CVA-61) attacked the convoy using a variety of weapons. Vehicles surviving the air attacks were later engaged by arriving coalition ground units, while most of the vehicles that managed to evade the traffic jam and continued to drive on the road north were targeted individually. The road bottle-neck near the Mutla Ridge police station was reduced to a long uninterrupted line of more than 300 stuck and abandoned vehicles sometimes called the Mile of Death. The wreckage found on the highway consisted of at least 28 tanks and other armored vehicles with many more commandeered civilian cars and buses filled with stolen Kuwaiti property
Posted on 4/23/19 at 6:29 am to weagle99
quote:
but hardly anyone talks about our recent battles in the desert.
Because they are not the same kind of battles where both sides are equal. We occupied these nations (wasting trillions thanks mostly to Republicans) so these were ambushes or slight battles.
We all know of Fallujah, but can't name any specific battles.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:07 am to CaptainBrannigan
You're the coherent equivalent of Oweo.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:13 am to ccard257
quote:
“On desperate ground” is a great book about Chosin Reservoir
“The Last Stand of Fox Co” is one of the best books I’ve ever read. It’s about a company of Marines that kept the MSR open for the entire 1st Marine Division to get out. They fought off entire regiments of Chinese human wave assaults. Harrowing doesn’t begin to describe the scenes from that book.
The toughest men I’ve ever read about.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:41 am to weagle99
Because of changes in warfare. Tens of thousands of our guys don't engage tens of thousands of their guys in days or weeks long battles.
Warfare has become bombing campaigns and small arms firefights that are over in a few hours or less.
Warfare has become bombing campaigns and small arms firefights that are over in a few hours or less.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:57 am to Kafka
quote:
Audie Murphy was The Last War Hero
I'm guessing you mean "war heros" who are given celebrity status? You should define this further as Audie Murphy was not the last CMH recipient in history. Furthermore, i'm sure former Marines would have issue with this since Chesty Puller served in Korea as well as WWII.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:59 am to weagle99
Because the battles from WW2 and the Civil War actually accomplished something.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:01 am to weagle99
quote:
but hardly anyone talks about our recent battles in the desert.
Different types of war really.
Would kind of cool to see a massive modern tank battle. Has one of those occurred?
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:04 am to weagle99
Khafji is pretty important.
Highway of death is very well known
Tora Bora too
Highway of death is very well known
Tora Bora too
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:06 am to weagle99
Probably cause in WW2 and the CW there was a very real threat to our survival.
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