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re: What would have prevented the amount of Flood Disaster loss of life?
Posted on 7/12/25 at 1:07 pm to Woolfpack
Posted on 7/12/25 at 1:07 pm to Woolfpack
I also heard that all of the campers and counselors had their cell phone locked away in the office. If true, that means none of them would have gotten the warning
3
Posted on 7/12/25 at 1:18 pm to Split2874
quote:
I also heard that all of the campers and counselors had their cell phone locked away in the office. If true, that means none of them would have gotten the warning
Being able to detox from devices is a great benefit of the camps that do this, but camps along a river like these are probably going to have to implement a policy of handing phones back out to counselors at night time if getting any kind to flash flood watches or warnings before lights out.
I read where one of the directors or counselors went to use the camp PA system to inform everyone of situation, but the power was already taken out at that point.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 1:24 pm to Split2874
quote:
If true, that means none of them would have gotten the warning
No cell service there anyway. It wouldn’t have mattered.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:07 pm to Mr Sausage
quote:
No cell service there anyway. It wouldn’t have mattered.
What about Internet? Very normal to use WiFi to with a cell phone. This is common in a lot of rural and rugged areas for phone calls.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:13 pm to Woolfpack
quote:
We’ve seen lack of action due to holidays before. I wonder, had it been a regular weekday, if there would have been someone watching the river.
I thought there was 5 weather staff working when there is normally 2, due to the high chance of flooding?
I really don’t know this area, but it looks pretty rural. All these talks about sirens, where are you putting them in a rural river canyon? The canyon very possibly muffles the sound.
To me, the main answer is for large camps they should have had a night watch anytime there was rain. For individual homes some sort of weather radio or cell signal. Again how many of them have Internet at home? You start there Imo.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:13 pm to baldona
quote:
What about Internet? Very normal to use WiFi to with a cell phone. This is common in a lot of rural and rugged areas for phone calls.
Not sure. I’m ignorant of that.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:23 pm to Woolfpack
quote:
It was the overnight hours before the start of the 4th of July weekend.
This is going to end up playing a part in regards to the usual decision making process. The Kerrville mayor has stated publicly that he was unaware of the flooding issues until 5:30AM. The National Weather Service Austin/San Antonio office has stated publicly that they were in near constant contact with Kerr county officials and the Kerrville mayor's office. I have not seen who at the mayor's office they were in contact with. That contact and discussions would have also included someone with the Emergency Management Association for Kerr county. I haven't heard if the EMA manager was involved or if it was another representative.
The NWS office was well staffed during the event, having brought in extra support. These discussions and planning would have likely taken place in the NWS chat that is regularly used to convey information during severe weather events.
Who was where and even available within that decision making group will be sorted out. It wouldn't be a surprise, it would even be expected, for some in that group to have been out of pocket due to the holiday weekend.
This post was edited on 7/12/25 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:28 pm to Split2874
quote:
also heard that all of the campers and counselors had their cell phone locked away in the office. If true, that means none of them would have gotten the warning
Campers, yes. That's how these camps are designed, to remove that from the kids and give them a break from it.
Counselors? That would surprise me, but I can see it being done for the same reason.
These camps are focused on human interactions.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:30 pm to dallastigers
“I read where one of the directors or counselors went to use the camp PA system to inform everyone of situation, but the power was already taken out at that point”
A 17 plus million dollar a year camp for little kids.. you darn sure install emergency generators and natural gas tanks.. and have spot lights and exterior lights.. not saying every cabin( although I would have done it)… but that muster location and path to it should look bright.
A 17 plus million dollar a year camp for little kids.. you darn sure install emergency generators and natural gas tanks.. and have spot lights and exterior lights.. not saying every cabin( although I would have done it)… but that muster location and path to it should look bright.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:46 pm to Thecoz
It’s not like the camp was not doing anything. They had already evacuated the lower cabins. These cabins were not expected to be in danger. The fact that you had a wall of water over 10 ft higher than the base flood elevation essentially took all planning out of the equation.
Now, if you want to say that if there is a flash flood warning, every one of those kids should have been removed from the cabins at the start, that’s a discussion.
Now, if you want to say that if there is a flash flood warning, every one of those kids should have been removed from the cabins at the start, that’s a discussion.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 2:59 pm to Mr Sausage
Understand your point…..
But my response is strictly to the comment on loss of power….
Should be no different than what I experience and expect at hotels.. I have evacuated a hotel during a fire.. power went off.. alarms went on emergency light and signs went on..
But my response is strictly to the comment on loss of power….
Should be no different than what I experience and expect at hotels.. I have evacuated a hotel during a fire.. power went off.. alarms went on emergency light and signs went on..
Posted on 7/12/25 at 3:06 pm to AGGIES
I helped my dad take the weather for the National Weather Service for 30 years in South Louisiana. Everyday for 30 years. Most rain we ever got at our station in 24 hours was 13 inches for Tropical Storm Alison. I read there was one spot in the Texas Hill Country that got 15 inches in a few hours. Nobody can be prepared for that.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 3:19 pm to Mr Sausage
quote:
No cell service there anyway. It wouldn’t have mattered.
Due to flooding and storms or just never has a good cell signal out there?
Posted on 7/12/25 at 3:42 pm to Thecoz
quote:
A 17 plus million dollar a year camp for little kids.. you darn sure install emergency generators and natural gas tanks.. and have spot lights and exterior lights.. not saying every cabin( although I would have done it)… but that muster location and path to it should look bright.
I read that in one article that was interviewing survivors, and it didn’t add much detail to that including what level of flooding was already occurring at time of attempt or about any attempted communication before this. It was in a story interviewing multiple survivors and then telling parts their survival story not an official timeline of everything that occurred up to that point. It actually seemed a little out of sequence due to taking parts from each person who weren’t necessarily together in same group.
You may still be correct, but the story was more about how the staff member while evacuating to maybe the Rec herself took a chance to go to the office to attempt to send out one last warning to others. It wasn’t clear on whether that would have been in time to help those girls who were taken in this tragedy.
This post was edited on 7/12/25 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 7/12/25 at 3:42 pm to dallastigers
It’s always bad. Not flood related.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 3:54 pm to Sofaking2
quote:
I read there was one spot in the Texas Hill Country that got 15 inches in a few hours. Nobody can be prepared for that.
And don’t forget that was miles away. Camp Mystic and nearby areas had lots of rain but even more was headed their way. It’s easy to say rain gauges on bridges and other things but some of that just doesn’t exist. In hindsight you can say it should have but preparations were made for what had been experienced previously. This level of event was unprecedented.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 5:15 pm to Thecoz
quote:
Interesting … I have a geology degree.. do you buy gas at places like shell.. bp etc Our CEO had a geology degree.. we were a super major. Pretty sure he is worth hundreds of million.. Then there are the independents.. lots of them own private jets.. Sometimes it does not pay to be snarky.
It’s ok Nancy. I didn’t tell the guy that. I was already going for engineering which would already allow me to work at all those places and more. I personally told myself I wasn’t limiting myself. I didn’t say it was useless like African american gender studies. Being of engineering mind set if probably why the concepts in stuff like geology seem kind of naturally sensical to me compare to the common person.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 5:20 pm to Mr Sausage
I’ve been to places far more remote than that camp and we had WiFi and cell service
It’s not the 1990s
It’s not the 1990s
Posted on 7/12/25 at 5:37 pm to AGGIES
It’s difficult to blame any authority on these types of events that basically come out of nowhere and are a bigger event than could be expected.
This happens with tornadoes, hurricanes, snow and ice storms, etc. Historically Mother Nature does things that can happen before quick gets ready.
It wasn’t just the girl’s camps but other campsites and towns that were affected. Why didn’t the towns move further away from the river? The finger pointing needs to stop and possible answers for the future sought.
Hate isn’t an answer to anything.
This happens with tornadoes, hurricanes, snow and ice storms, etc. Historically Mother Nature does things that can happen before quick gets ready.
It wasn’t just the girl’s camps but other campsites and towns that were affected. Why didn’t the towns move further away from the river? The finger pointing needs to stop and possible answers for the future sought.
Hate isn’t an answer to anything.
Posted on 7/12/25 at 6:44 pm to dallastigers
Investigation will be done by government and/or plaintiffs lawyers. Facts and timeline will be established. Families are still burying their children and loved ones. In the meantime, long article in today’s Wall Street Journal with some information. Also, see link below for information on the protocol followed by a nearby camp.
Camp response
Camp response
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