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re: Was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki necessary?
Posted on 4/18/18 at 7:33 am to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 4/18/18 at 7:33 am to Draconian Sanctions
It was tragically necessary.
You could say that millions of Japanese, and untold numbers of Allied troops were saved as a result of those bombs. The widespread destruction that would have been inflicted on Japan as a result of the upcoming Allied invasion would have been devastating.
You could say that millions of Japanese, and untold numbers of Allied troops were saved as a result of those bombs. The widespread destruction that would have been inflicted on Japan as a result of the upcoming Allied invasion would have been devastating.
0
Posted on 4/18/18 at 7:41 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
He cant understand the concept that
1. Japan surrendering with emperor clause
Is not the same as
2. Japan surrendering unconditionally then the US essentially pardoning the emperor after the unconditional surrender
Stop lying
I've posted on here over and over that i understood the difference. I have merely asked if that's a big enough difference to flatten 2 cities over.
that you are so dug in and defensive over someone even asking the question is really sad.
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 7:41 am
Posted on 4/18/18 at 7:54 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I have merely asked if that's a big enough difference to flatten 2 cities over.
I think so when you consider the circumstances at the time (deep distrust/disdain for Japan and their leadership at the time, and, most importantly, looming tensions with Russia). Japan's leadership damn near intentionally put their people in a position to be the unfortunate victims of a nuclear bomb demonstration.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 7:58 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
I think so when you consider the circumstances at the time (deep distrust/disdain for Japan and their leadership at the time, and, most importantly, looming tensions with Russia). Japan's leadership damn near intentionally put their people in a position to be the unfortunate victims of a nuclear bomb demonstration.
Not to mention the fatigue that US had over the war. The fact that we were about to redeploy a lot of the European forces to the Pacific after they had defeated Hitler had to have just been a killer for morale.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 7:59 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I have merely asked if that's a big enough difference to flatten 2 cities over.
Apparently the Japanese thought so.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 7:59 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Not to mention the fatigue that US had over the war. The fact that we were about to redeploy a lot of the European forces to the Pacific after they had defeated Hitler had to have just been a killer for morale.
For sure. I should have included that.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:06 am to SoFunnyItsNot
quote:
when did Draconian become such a bad poster?
He has always been one of the worst posters on this site, across a wide range of topics from politics, sports, attempts at humor, etc.
Consistently one of the worst.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:07 am to LuckyTiger
how DARE someone have a different opinion than you 
i'm fricking hilarious btw, this comment says more about you than it does me
quote:
attempts at humor
i'm fricking hilarious btw, this comment says more about you than it does me
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 8:08 am
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:13 am to Draconian Sanctions
the only response y'all have are your upvotes and downvotes. Sad.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:13 am to Draconian Sanctions
This has been one of the best troll jobs on the OT in a good while.
Well done, sir.
Well done, sir.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:14 am to Draconian Sanctions
Dude just shut up.
No one takes you seriously, gives any credence to your bull shite opinions, or really cares what you have to say.
You’re basically just an annoyance. You have to annoy someone with your bull shite to get them to respond to you.
Do everyone a favor for once and just frick off.
No one takes you seriously, gives any credence to your bull shite opinions, or really cares what you have to say.
You’re basically just an annoyance. You have to annoy someone with your bull shite to get them to respond to you.
Do everyone a favor for once and just frick off.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:17 am to LuckyTiger
You can't handle your narrative being questioned so all you can do is resort to personal attacks and telling them to shut up rather than actually having a conversation. Pathetic.
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 8:18 am
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:22 am to LSUBoo
This thread had a lot of emotional responses, but enough scrutiny had been passed over the OP to at the very least make it apparent that claims such as “the Japanese were ready to surrender” have doubt cast upon them.
I don’t know if I’d expect any new insights to be shared. Probably just a recirculating of the same discourse is the best case at this point.
I don’t know if I’d expect any new insights to be shared. Probably just a recirculating of the same discourse is the best case at this point.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:23 am to LSUBoo
I think he could get a higher grade if he didn't have a quarter to a third of the responses in the thread. That number is just a guess by the way
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:24 am to Ross
quote:
This thread had a lot of emotional responses
What do you mean had? LuckyTiger is extremely emotional this morning
Sad that people are so emotionally invested into what could have been an interesting discussion. Even so there were some good responses.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 8:25 am to Draconian Sanctions
If my kid is running around the neighborhood bullying other kids he's gonna stop and be ready to 'surrender' once I show up and get my hands on him.
But I'm still gonna tan his hide 'cause, if I don't, he's just gonna keep doing it as soon as I turn my back again.
But I'm still gonna tan his hide 'cause, if I don't, he's just gonna keep doing it as soon as I turn my back again.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 9:04 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
It is not at all unfair to say the terms of surrender offered by the Japanese before the bombs were not, practically speaking, dramatically different than what ended up being accepted after the bombs.
One of your own links refutes this talking point of yours. It says that the Japanese not only wanted to preserve the Emperor but also wanted to avoid war trials and hold on to territory.
We said no they had to unconditionally surrender. They said no. We bombed them. They said no. We bombed them again and they finally said yes. Then, after they finally unconditionally surrendered, we allowed them to keep the emperor as a figurehead.
Keeping territory and avoiding war crime trials is not "essentially" or "for all intents and purposes" the exact same surrender that we finally agreed to.
LINK
quote:
But Hasegawa and other historians have shown that Japan’s leaders were in fact quite savvy, well aware of their difficult position, and holding out for strategic reasons. Their concern was not so much whether to end the conflict, but how to end it while holding onto territory, avoiding war crimes trials, and preserving the imperial system. The Japanese could still inflict heavy casualties on any invader, and they hoped to convince the Soviet Union, still neutral in the Asian theater, to mediate a settlement with the Americans. Stalin, they calculated, might negotiate more favorable terms in exchange for territory in Asia. It was a long shot, but it made strategic sense.
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 9:14 am
Posted on 4/18/18 at 9:42 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki necessary?
You should be ashamed of even posting something like this! All I have to say to you is look at the Bataan death march that the Japanese submitted our troops to. frick them! I am glad we created Japanese BBQ and I will never regret it. My students also agree with me especially after I take them to the WWII museum and we have a deep discussion about what happened to our troops as a result of the Japanese.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 11:50 am to WHS
The OP and others of his stripe sit in their ivory towers, as remote from the world today as it was back then. Japan was hated beyond belief by the American public, especially when compared to American feelings about Nazi Germany. Sitting in judgment 73+ yrs later, totally disregarding the history between the two countries that existed back then.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 12:05 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I've posted on here over and over that i understood the difference. I have merely asked if that's a big enough difference to flatten 2 cities over.
the differences aren’t quite that simple.
Japan wanted to maintain the imperial form of ruling the country. And wanted to keep their Emperor from facing war crimes charges.
The US wanted know part of the Japanese Imperical system being kept alive. That was the most important aspect to us.
The surrender we got was Japan no longer having the Imperial System in place.
We shoes mercy to the individual that held the title, but his position became nothing more than ceremonial one, rather than supreme god-like ruler.
So yes, when all is said and done, on paper the terms don’t seem much different.
However in reality, Japan no longer had an Emperor (in the traditional sense of the word).
Which is what we wanted, but weren’t getting prior to the combination of us dropping a pair of Nukes and the Soviet’s coming join the fun.
That Hirohito was still alive, not facing charges, and held a fake title was not a big concern of ours.
That he no longer had any kind of stroke and was relegated to a powerless figurehead who no longer struck fear into anyone in the planet with no functioning military of his own was the ultimate goal.
mission accomplished.
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