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re: USA national debt as a percent of GDP
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:41 pm to TT9
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:41 pm to TT9
quote:And?
Trump spends just like Obama.
I am hugely against what Trump did with his stimulus, but your statement of “wrong” was actually wrong.
Obama’s years resulted in a jump of ~40%.
He is heavily to blame for where we now sit.
Trump is to blame for the recent stimulus.
0
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:42 pm to fallguy_1978
quote:
Most of the policies that created the housing crisis happened under Bill Clinton.
I love this.
- Economy crashes under Bush in 2008 (starts at the end of 2007) and it was all Clinton's fault.
- In Bush's last few months in office he approves the $700B TARP.
- Obama takes over and in his first year he approves the Recovery Act for $700B.
- Under Obama the economy gradually gets better. The day he took office the Dow Jones was at 7949.09. On Obama's last day in office, the Dow Jones closed out at 19,804.72
This article from Forbes is titled "Obama Had More Stock Market Records Than Trump"
LINK
The national debt is going straight up right now and there are people who will say "The economy hit rock bottom at the end of Bush's last term and it was Clinton's fault. Obama approved that huge stimulus package which put us in more debt. The economy is doing good now because Trump is the president.
If it was only that simple.
First, presidents do not have as big of an impact on the economy as people think. Everyone forgets the president is just one part of government. The more support they have from congress the more they can do. If they do not have much support from congress they are not able to do as much.
I could go on man, but you can just give all the credit to presidents from the same party you support and then not give any credit to the presidents who are members of another party.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:42 pm to hubertcumberdale
quote:The same way I blame Trump for spending $3 trillion in response to a virus he didn’t create.
He did not create the economic collapse though, so how can you blame him?
Just because they did not create the reason for their actions, that does not mean that the actions were correct or justified.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:43 pm to hubertcumberdale
Well, from a bunch of people who literally send 100s of millions of dollars to "unemployed" Nigerians, I'm not surprised by any of it anymore.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:44 pm to OweO
quote:
On Obama's last day in office, the Dow Jones closed out at 19,804.72
How much of that increase was after November?
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:45 pm to hubertcumberdale
quote:
USA national debt as a percent of GDP
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:45 pm to Puck82
Your should be asking how much of that is due to NIRP and QE lol
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:54 pm to OweO
quote:
Economy crashes under Bush in 2008 (starts at the end of 2007) and it was all Clinton's fault.
I didn't say that it was all Clinton's fault but it was his administration that started many of the policies that led to the housing crash.
They essentially bullied banks into lending to unqualified buyers. Now the banks certainly did some shady things with mortgage securities
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:57 pm to OweO
quote:
This article from Forbes is titled "Obama Had More Stock Market Records Than Trump"
Uh, because he was there for 8 years and Trump is still in his first term?
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:57 pm to Powerman
quote:
The break records almost every year with or without a tax cut
Right but there's no indication that the tax cuts added anything to the national debt.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 3:59 pm to OweO
quote:
- In Bush's last few months in office he approves the $700B TARP.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:00 pm to Cosmo
quote:
Chart was flat under trump until China fricked us with a virus and we went full retard
Which isn’t as good as you make it sound given the GDP surge in the period. It means he similarly ranked up deficits to match.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:00 pm to fallguy_1978
quote:
Right but there's no indication that the tax cuts added anything to the national debt.
Right. It seems to be offset by the stimulus or paying future taxes
I don't know what the ideal tax rate is but it's certainly not 0% or 100% or anything close to either of those numbers
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:06 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
People also forget 100% of it was paid back, with interest
This
So it would have only caused a temporary run up on the graph and I think only 431 billion was ever used for the program.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:11 pm to Powerman
It takes decades to actually figure out the effects of these programs. The new stimulus will probably permanently shift the growth trajectory down because of all the new debt and regulations. Of course, the pols and the bankers in charge will be dead by then so no accountability necessary.
This post was edited on 5/22/20 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:14 pm to hubertcumberdale
Ol Newt stopped that up trend right when hye had enough to time affect it after 1994.
I guess Reagan was all defense, surprised it was that much, still cheaper than a war
I guess Reagan was all defense, surprised it was that much, still cheaper than a war
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:16 pm to fallguy_1978
I know Clinton's administration played a factor, but Bush's administration didn't do anything to help it either.
All I am saying is that its not as simple as blaming one president and giving credit to another.
Presidents are like school principals. One leaves, the school board members vote in another one. That principal makes whatever changes, he or she wants that is allowed without having to get approval from the board.
There are people who work within the system who has worked under several different administrations, but to them its always business as usual. They longer they stay at that school the more people they piss off. Every once in awhile you might get one who can make some needed changes because they are able to get the right people on board with what they want to do, etc.
All I am saying is that its not as simple as blaming one president and giving credit to another.
Presidents are like school principals. One leaves, the school board members vote in another one. That principal makes whatever changes, he or she wants that is allowed without having to get approval from the board.
There are people who work within the system who has worked under several different administrations, but to them its always business as usual. They longer they stay at that school the more people they piss off. Every once in awhile you might get one who can make some needed changes because they are able to get the right people on board with what they want to do, etc.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:18 pm to Powerman
quote:The ideal tax rate is MOAR!!
I don't know what the ideal tax rate is but it's certainly not 0% or 100%
-signed,
Democrats
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:19 pm to hubertcumberdale
"Never let a good crisis go to waste."
Posted on 5/22/20 at 4:19 pm to OweO
Go read about the Community Reinvestment Act in 1995. It's absolutely one of the major causes of the foreclosure crisis in 2008-2009
quote:
The seeds of the mortgage meltdown were planted during Bill Clinton's presidency.
Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits.
These new HUD rules lowered down payments from the traditional 20 percent to 3 percent by 1995 and zero down-payments by 2000. What's more, in the Clinton push to issue home loans to lower income borrowers, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made a common practice to virtually end credit documentation, low credit scores were disregarded, and income and job history was also thrown aside. The phrase "subprime" became commonplace. What an understatement.
Next, the Clinton administration's rules ordered the taxpayer-backed Fannie and Freddie to expand their quotas of risky loans from 30 percent of portfolio to 50 percent as part of a big push to expand home ownership.
Fannie and Freddie were securitizing these home loans and offering 100 percent taxpayer guarantees of repayment. So now taxpayers were on the hook for these risky, low down-payment loans.
Tragically, when prices fell, lower-income folks who really could not afford these mortgages under normal credit standards, suffered massive foreclosures and personal bankruptcies. So many will never get credit again. It's a perfect example of liberals using government allegedly to help the poor, but the ultimate consequences were disastrous for them.
Additionally, ultra-easy money from the Fed also played a key role. Rates were held too low for too long in 2002-2005, which created asset price bubbles in housing, commodities, gold, oil, and elsewhere. When the Fed finally tightened, prices collapsed. So did mortgage collateral (homes) and mortgage bonds that depended on the collateral.
Many bond packages were written to please Fannie and Freddie, based on the fantastical idea that home prices would never fall. Fannie and Freddie, by the way, cost the taxpayers $187 billion.
Just to make this story worse, Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama voted to filibuster a Republican effort to roll back Fannie and Freddie. But on top of all this, while Hillary was propping up Fannie and Freddie, she was taking contributions from their foundations
This post was edited on 5/22/20 at 4:22 pm
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