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re: UPS Teamsters Unite
Posted on 6/9/18 at 9:37 pm to EarlyCuyler3
Posted on 6/9/18 at 9:37 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
It's the same goal, chasing the bottom line. One market goes after it with derivatives. One goes after it by driving down employee costs. Same principle.
Well except not really at all. Financial instruments and human capital are not only not at all the same, but a derivative is either speculative or a hedge where as labor is a direct input to an output of your main business.
0
Posted on 6/9/18 at 9:40 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
You're purposely missing the point about the quality of the jobs
No I'm not. Construction (which you don't even need education for), IT, banking, and sales are all hiring right now.
Your point is companies should keep workers are no longer useful or unskilled around just because they've always been there. That's retarded. The labor has to bring something to the table as well. Don't like your job, learn an in demand skill, everyone is hiring.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 9:43 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Well then you've missed my point entirely. I'm not arguing to employers to be forced to keep non productive employees. I'm saying they should pay the ones they have a decent wage. Which they won't do without some outside force making them. Hence, where a union is useful.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 9:47 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
I'm saying they should pay the ones they have a decent wage
Whats the definition of "a decent wage" for a guy that puts a box in a truck, drives it somewhere, and then puts it on a doorstep? Literally 90% of the population can do that and it takes no special skill.
quote:
Which they won't do without some outside force making them.
bullshite. I get paid well, get variable comp, bonuses and raises every year, but I bring something to the table. I also get hit up by recruiters more than once a month.
quote:
Hence, where a union is useful.
I guess for workers that actually being nothing to the table.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 10:06 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Globalization has allowed the outsourcing of labor. Which killed manufacturing and its not coming back until there's a global reset. Why pay an old baw a living wage when you can force some 3rd world Asian to do it for pennies? Thus less bargaining power for the baw here at home. All of this stuff is as old as time itself.
These simple truths of the business world are also as old as time itself, I learned them 45 years ago, the unions must work hard to keep economic concepts a secret form their members.
Businesses exist to provide products and services to consumers, not to provide jobs.
It is the duty of a corporation to produce products and services in a way that maximizes return on investment to stockholders. Minimizing labor cost is one part, they have no obligation to pay any more than is necessary to attract and retain the needed labor.
No business should be forced to pay wages set at arbitrary artificial levels, it will only harm the business and endanger jobs in the long run. If a workers believes they are not properly compensated they are free to seek other employment at higher wages. If enough workers leave the employer the compensation was too low and they will be forced to raise wages, labor market like any other will correct itself.
If a worker wants higher pay they should make them selves more valuable to employers by acquiring new knowledge and skills. If you are dong the same things you did five years ago there is no reason you should expect to be paid more than you were five years ago.
This post was edited on 6/9/18 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 6/10/18 at 8:25 am to EA6B
quote:
If you are dong the same things you did five years ago there is no reason you should expect to be paid more than you were five years ago.
So any job that is somewhat repetitive shouldn't get a payraise?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 8:34 am to pioneerbasketball
Is a driver with 15 years experience better than one with 5?
If not then why would he make more?
If not then why would he make more?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 8:37 am to yellowfin
quote:
Is a driver with 15 years experience better than one with 5?
Its possible but you would have to reevaluate case by case
Posted on 6/10/18 at 8:37 am to pioneerbasketball
quote:
So any job that is somewhat repetitive shouldn't get a payraise?
If you are doing the same exact thing, no, besides a COL adjustment. Why do you deserve more money for doing nothing extra?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 8:43 am to pioneerbasketball
Then why should it be automatic that the one with 15 makes more money?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 8:44 am to pioneerbasketball
quote:
Its possible but you would have to reevaluate case by case
You're arguing against union pay structure while arguing in favor of unions bubba.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:31 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
If you are doing the same exact thing, no, besides a COL adjustment. Why do you deserve more money for doing nothing extra?
Experience, training.
Unless its an off the street hire, most ups drivers have been with the company 5-20+ years.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:32 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
You're arguing against union pay structure while arguing in favor of unions bubba.
I answered his question
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:35 am to pioneerbasketball
quote:
Experience, training
What kind of experience or training makes you better at moving a box?
quote:
Unless its an off the street hire, most ups drivers have been with the company 5-20+ years
So has the secretary at my office, she still just answers the phone. Does she deserve 100k just because she's been there a long time?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:38 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Literally 90% of the population can do that and it takes no special skill.
No they can't. They want to work in air conditioning, or sit in a cubicle, or play on their phone, and can't pass a drug test.
If you cap their pay at $12 an hour,
A) frick you, it's none of your business what they get paid
B) You're not going to have enough drivers to make the company work
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:40 am to wadewilson
quote:
No they can't
Yes they can.
quote:
They want to work in air conditioning, or sit in a cubicle, or play on their phone, and can't pass a drug test.
Can and want to aren't the same thing.
quote:
If you cap their pay at $12 an hour,
A) frick you, it's none of your business what they get paid
Sure it is. If it's none of my business then it's none of yours either.
quote:
You're not going to have enough drivers to make the company work
Not true.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:40 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
What kind of experience or training makes you better at moving a box?
I get the idea of trying to construct a straw man of what that job is to try and make your argument better, but repeating it throughout this thread just makes you sound obtuse.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:41 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
What kind of experience or training makes you better at moving a box?
hazmat, air training, driving school. Running orion...ect...
quote:
So has the secretary at my office, she still just answers the phone. Does she deserve 100k just because she's been there a long time?
I doubt your secretary would last in the back of feeder truck bending over 400 times to pick up boxes.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:42 am to Mingo Was His NameO
Why do you think construction can't find enough people?
Entry wages are a joke.
Entry wages are a joke.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 9:43 am to pioneerbasketball
What’s the average yearly earnings for a UPS driver?
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