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Started By
Message
re: Unjust laws: drinking and smoking age. Let's have an honest discussion.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 7:49 am to magildachunks
Posted on 2/11/20 at 7:49 am to magildachunks
I have always taken the position if this whole thing is about money Louisiana can just get the remainder of highway funds lost by adding a tax to 18-20 year old alcohol sales.
Beyond that it is crazy to me that you can drive, vote, enlist, enter into contracts, go to big boy/girl prison but can't get alcohol at 18-20.
If anything people should be able to drink first then a few years later get a drivers license, vote, enlist, etc.
Beyond that it is crazy to me that you can drive, vote, enlist, enter into contracts, go to big boy/girl prison but can't get alcohol at 18-20.
If anything people should be able to drink first then a few years later get a drivers license, vote, enlist, etc.
0
Posted on 2/11/20 at 7:52 am to magildachunks
Maybe your gripes should be directed at Louisiana for accepting the highway money
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:06 am to magildachunks
I think..
Age of vice should be 18.
At 18 you can vote, drink, smoke and gamble.
I also think drugs should be legalized to where doctors can wean junkies off with medical grade heroin or cocaine, rather than a more dangerous synthetic.
Age of vice should be 18.
At 18 you can vote, drink, smoke and gamble.
I also think drugs should be legalized to where doctors can wean junkies off with medical grade heroin or cocaine, rather than a more dangerous synthetic.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:10 am to magildachunks
quote:Not
Some of us are rational here
Let them eat Cake on the Poli Board.
This post was edited on 2/11/20 at 8:11 am
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:24 am to magildachunks
At 18 you can legally have sex with whomever you want. An 18 year old who just graduated high school 2 weeks ago, can consent to getting into a sexual relationship with a 46 year old man. But at the same time, that 18 year old cannot consent to having a drink with their sexual partner.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:32 am to magildachunks
quote:
I'm not going to lay out the argument of "you can fight and die in a war for your country", or the responsibility to vote, or support yourself/get married. Others will do that. And those are valid arguments.
But yet it’s the first thing you do.
Knowing right from wrong is different then understanding the affects of smoking and alcohol.
Understanding you should not bring a gun to a school and shoot your classmates is an easier concept to manage than responsible use of a controlled substance. I know several people that it would be better for everyone if they were not allowed to drink. Some of them wish they could stop but can’t - and they are in their 40’s.
So yes, I don’t think a 16 should be able to drink alcohol or smoke but believed they can be charged with murder and given death penalty in some instances.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:33 am to magildachunks
I really am shocked that the tobacco to 21 thing went over so easily.
Considering that by 21 most of our grandparents and older relatives were parents/veterans/home owners/generally further along in life than most people now, I guess we can expect the drinking and smoking age to keep going higher over time. Considered a bunch of adult children now.
If they can move it to 21, why not 25? They'll use the same arguments.
Considering that by 21 most of our grandparents and older relatives were parents/veterans/home owners/generally further along in life than most people now, I guess we can expect the drinking and smoking age to keep going higher over time. Considered a bunch of adult children now.
If they can move it to 21, why not 25? They'll use the same arguments.
This post was edited on 2/11/20 at 8:36 am
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:35 am to magildachunks
quote:
Mine is the death penalty/ life without parole angle.
If we can say, with a straight face, that someone is responsible enough for their actions to be sentenced to death or life imprisonment, how can we then say they are not responsible enough to consume alcohol and tobacco?
How can we say a 15 or 16 year old is enough of an adult to be charged as one, but then say they cannot be responsible enough to decide what to do with their bodies?
This is not a compelling argument to me. The purpose of legal penalties is two fold. One is to punish for actions, that is the primary purpose. The other is the protection of society at large. While I am reticent to see a child charged as an adult in almost all cases, there are certainly times a 16 or 17 year old should be charged as an adult and incarcerated beyond their 18th birthday for the betterment of society. I’m a little sketchy on the death penalty but mostly because of the disproportionate way it is doled out (almost entirely an issue of what lawyer you can afford).
The drinking and tobacco ages, as well as voting and serving in the military, age restrictions based on access to rights that require a certain maturity. And here is where I agree with you. Chose one age and use that.
I think the main push for 21 vs 18 is really a pragmatic one. It’s generally easier to identify a 16 or 17 year old from a 21 year old than from an 18 year old, males in particular, at least
I don’t like it but I firmly believe that is the unspoken reason for this. And I could be wrong. Also, FTR.
quote:
”If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson never said that.
https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/if-law-unjustspurious-quotation
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:38 am to arcalades
quote:
minors being charged as adults has long bothered me. It's beyond nuts and crazy. I'm not opposed to serious consequences, but I hate the evil and hypocrisy of why prosecutors, judges, etc do this stuff.
please explain and link me to the
quote:
evil and hypocrisy of why prosecutors, judges, etc do this stuff.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:46 am to Sus-Scrofa
quote:
Considering that by 21 most of our grandparents and older relatives were parents/veterans/home owners/generally further along in life than most people now, I guess we can expect the drinking and smoking age to keep going higher over time. Considered a bunch of adult children now.
This country does not value personal liberty and has not for a very long time.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:47 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Government at its very core is not something that protects our liberty, it restricts it.
A great example here in GA is the fact we finally got Sunday sales a few years ago. Government was technically why it took so long but we all know which group of people lobbied and held sway to maintain the status quo for all those years. Same with marijuana.
18yo kids are going to drink and they're going to smoke. That said, I don't mind that they don't have easy access to that stuff until they're 21. I think 21 is a fair age where the brain can start to understand longer term implications, such as becoming addicted to nicotine or regularly binge drinking.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 8:48 am to magildachunks
Cigarette's are trashy AF and I will never argue that more should be smoked
Posted on 2/11/20 at 9:03 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
18yo kids are going to drink and they're going to smoke. That said, I don't mind that they don't have easy access to that stuff until they're 21. I think 21 is a fair age where the brain can start to understand longer term implications, such as becoming addicted to nicotine or regularly binge drinking.
Let’s not act like in this day and age that they’re not exposed to the implications of doing either of those. I knew when I was five years old at the latest that usage of tobacco products and drinking were not good for you. This at its core is just one more way for our ubiquitous government to control us unwashed masses.
Some free country we’ve got. Stores, municipalities, and states should say frick you to this law.
This post was edited on 2/11/20 at 9:08 am
Posted on 2/11/20 at 9:11 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
This at its core is just one more way for our ubiquitous government to control us unwashed masses.
Parents vote at higher rates than 18-21yo young adults. Government is a mirror of the opinions of the voters putting politicians in office. 18-21yo young adults don't like it and want more liberties? Go vote.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 9:16 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Government is a mirror of the opinions of the voters putting politicians in office.
I wasn’t aware that these asshats in DC were voted into office for their stance on cigarettes and dip.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 9:17 am to magildachunks
At least give 18 y.o. beer again.
It's damn hard to kill yourself with beer. You usually get too full.
Because the way it is now the 18-20 group can't buy a keg of beer so they go for the most potent and concealable stuff they can. That stuff is much more dangerous and will kill you.
It's damn hard to kill yourself with beer. You usually get too full.
Because the way it is now the 18-20 group can't buy a keg of beer so they go for the most potent and concealable stuff they can. That stuff is much more dangerous and will kill you.
Posted on 2/11/20 at 9:18 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
I wasn’t aware that these asshats in DC were voted into office for their stance on cigarettes and dip
I mean, Trump just raised the age on smoking and vaping and did so unilaterally via executive order. I don't remember it being part of his presidential platform but maybe it was?
Posted on 2/11/20 at 9:24 am to mmmmmbeeer
It wasn’t.
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