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re: Two questions about World War 2 in Europe.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:01 pm to ryanlsu
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:01 pm to ryanlsu
quote:I will agree with this. I am not counting on passive support.
The US supplied 2/3rds of all allied military equipment. Without that the Russians and Brits would have been overrun. But if you don’t believe me maybe you will believe Stalin who said, “The most important things in this war are machines. … The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through lend-lease, we would have lost the war.”
My previous answers revolve around the human effort of the US
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:01 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
I'll ask it a different way. Were American troops needed to win the war?
I think so. I do not believe that England had the sheer number of men required to invade all of Europe once Germany took France and North Africa.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:02 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:They wouldn’t use it on England….And air superiority doesn’t mean they couldn’t get a single plane into England’s airspace….
Unless the A Bomb was delivered with a V2 rocket, how would they deliver it to England. You just said England had air superiority
But England isn’t Japan. If they were aware of the mere existence of the A bomb in Nazi control they would have come to terms with the fact they need to “surrender”
This post was edited on 10/29/24 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:38 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Unless the A Bomb was delivered with a V2 rocket, how would they deliver it to England. You just said England had air superiority
A V2 had a payload of 1,500 lbs. in 1945, an atomic bomb weighed close to 10,000 lbs. The V2 was not going to get an a-bomb anywhere, much less over the English Channel.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:39 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
2. Was the United States needed to win it?
Yes. Not just militarily but our industrial strength was vital to the allies winning.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:44 pm to soccerfüt
I don’t understand your aim here
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:47 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
1. Was there a peaceful solution prior to its start?
Yes, but it would have required the British and French Empires to lose their relative power advantage over Germany. The British were absolutely not willing to do this. Ironically, the Second World War led to the destruction of the British Empire and today Germany is stronger than Britain.
quote:
2. Was the United States needed to win it?
To achieve the unconditional surrender/defeat of Germany? Yes. There is no scenario where Germany is totally defeated absent the United States. People showing the casualty rates on the Eastern Front do not make a successful case for the Soviets being able to handle Germany absent US/Anglo aid and military power.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 3:33 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
1. Was there a peaceful solution prior to its start? 2. Was the United States needed to win it?
quote:
Adolf Hitler declared war on the United States on December 11, 1941, following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, which brought America into the war against Japan and subsequently, due to their alliance, against Germany as well.
Hitler had an agenda that he wasn’t going to back down from, and he invited us so no need to be rude.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 3:42 pm to TheHarahanian
GBR and France should have marched into Germany when they took back the Rhineland. Germany's Generals said they weren't ready for war and would have gone back. That would have been the end of the Nazi regime.
Yes they needed the US. Even USSR. Without our Lend Lease materials they wouldn't have been able to do it.
Yes they needed the US. Even USSR. Without our Lend Lease materials they wouldn't have been able to do it.
This post was edited on 10/29/24 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 10/29/24 at 3:57 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
I believe that when the Japanese met Russian regulars on mainland Asia (I think it was Korea?) in WWII they were rebuffed pretty thoroughly.
There were a few “border wars” in Manchuria/mongolia area in the late 1930’s between Japan and Russia. Russia won those.
Japanese army had their hands full in China.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 3:58 pm to Pandy Fackler
If the British would have made Germany give up the telephone poles, the whole thing would have never started.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 4:42 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
1. Was there a peaceful solution prior to its start?
No.
quote:
2. Was the United States needed to win it?
Yes.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 4:49 pm to Pandy Fackler
Without Allied help, the USSR craters in '42. '43 at the latest. As it is, Stalin was making behind the scenes peace feelers with the Germans as late as '43. No USA means no USSR.
Hell, America sent the Soviets over 75,000 trucks and their logistics were still a mess. Even in '45 their losses were horrific due in large part to their abominable supply situation.
Hell, America sent the Soviets over 75,000 trucks and their logistics were still a mess. Even in '45 their losses were horrific due in large part to their abominable supply situation.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 4:51 pm to ryanlsu
quote:
You can never predict what a person like Hitler would do.
Hitler was very explicit about what he wanted to do. He put it in writing as far back as the 1920s.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 4:52 pm to crazy4lsu
Europe still needs the USA for protection almost 100 years later.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 4:55 pm to BayouBaw84
If the US abdicates from Europe and they start rearming in earnest, we may not like the ultimate outcome. We've had 80 years of relative peace in Middle and Western Europe, more than likely for the first time in recorded history. That's not something to shrug off lightly.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 5:10 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
I'll ask it a different way. Were American troops needed to win the war?
Interesting question. Personally, I think Germany was finished in Dec 1941 but no one knew it yet. The Soviets took the Nazi’s best shot, traded land for time until General Winter (greatest general in history) appeared, and the war was lost for the Germans.
Without US troops, probably a negotiated peace between the Germans and Soviets with western and Central Europe under Nazi control and Eastern Europe divided between the Nazi’s and the Soviets. The world would then be a four empire Cold War - US and UK, Nazi Germany, the Soviets, and Japan in the East. World War 3 is a guarantee in this scenario.
Committing troops freed Western Europe, Japan became an economic powerhouse, with the cost of Eastern Europe under an Iron Curtain. World War 3 avoided.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 5:12 pm to Pandy Fackler
If USA stays out…..Great Britain is now NW Germany
Posted on 10/29/24 at 5:13 pm to Pandy Fackler
1.) Yes, several possible ways to prevent. Two that havent been mentioned include a better-for-Germany Treaty of Versailles where they weren't totally embarrassed or hurt economically though the 20s and 30s. Without the punitive penalties on Germany after WW1, there is possibly no Hitler or Nazi party. Also, the German government could have stood up to the brownshirts and not appointed Hitler to be Chancellor. He was never voted into power and the Nazi party never had more than about 1/3 of the votes in their parliament. The opposition party compromised under thug pressure from the brownshirts to appoint Hitler to be Chancellor, and things went downhill from there. Without Hitler as Chancellor, they dont push into the Rhineland, Austria, Belgium, and France, etc.
2.) Yeah its pretty well established that the US provided the materials and support to everyone needed to defend against the very strong and motivated Axis powers. They were also the primary force preventing the Japanese from going into Russia after Manchuria and the rest of China were conquered, allowing Russia to focus on Germany. The US supported China and we all know about the Pacific war and its toll on Japan.
2.) Yeah its pretty well established that the US provided the materials and support to everyone needed to defend against the very strong and motivated Axis powers. They were also the primary force preventing the Japanese from going into Russia after Manchuria and the rest of China were conquered, allowing Russia to focus on Germany. The US supported China and we all know about the Pacific war and its toll on Japan.
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