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TheCurmudgeon
LSU Fan
SE Louisiana, unfortunately
Member since Aug 2014
1108 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

I tend to get my news from npr podcasts, Reddit, TD, and Ben Shapiro podcast


It's really crazy to see the vast difference in the way news is interpreted and twisted by news sources and people. Reddit is so far left (Trump can do no right) so much of TD is so far right (Trump can do no wrong), NPR seems to be left-leaning, Shapiro is obviously right-leaning. I have no chance of forming any coherent opinion on shite bc it just flies by so fast and I don't have time to digest everything.

I know that this rant has nothing to do specifically with the topic of Turks vs Kurds but that is just my reaction after hearing about it from all of the places I get my news. How does anyone have time to keep up with this shit?


But none of this is Trump or reddit or shapiro or any other pundit.

All it is about is whether American parents should be subjected to sending their children thousands of miles away to die because of a death cult/mentality that has infected the ME for hundreds of years and will never change.

If you are confused go drive your child to the recruiting station and put him/her over in the ME to die for this BS. It really is that simple.


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62
RazorBroncs
Vanderbilt Fan
Ft. Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2013
6556 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:


The Kurds fought Saddam, they fought the Iranian insurgents, and are now fighting ISIS. They are worthy of our support. And just like the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan, we are leaving a vacuum of power to which the enemy shall fill


Your argument is essentially that we should remain there in perpetuity. Yes, we've done some good there. But is it worth it for the cost in American lives and tax dollars?

The worst that can happen is our "enemies fill the power vacuum." What exactly does that mean for the US? The US mainland? Our global diplomacy and influence? The worst thing that happened to the US directly (9/11) had nothing to do with any power vacuums or troops on the ground.

We don't HAVE to have these ME countries for oil anymore, and there will still be those that have to export to us to remain afloat no matter what.

What's the worst that can happen TO US when "enemies fill the power vacuum?" Not trying to be a smartass, I'm legitimately asking. I don't know a ton about ME diplomacy, but it seems like a relatively lost cause.


OWLFAN86
Rice Fan
OT Mentor
Member since Jun 2004
143715 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

There are even parts of Spain that operate semiautonomously

Basqs separatists are legit badasses


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11
windshieldman
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Nov 2012
8302 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

So my question to those that disagree with Trump. Y’all are perfectly fine with American troops being killed in Syria to protect Kurds against Turkey, who have already been fighting for centuries?


I’ve asked this question probably 10 times on political board to people mad at us leaving Syria. Nobody will answer


SCLibertarian
South Carolina Fan
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
16441 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

I’ve asked this question probably 10 times on political board to people mad at us leaving Syria. Nobody will answer

The life of one American soldier in that hellhole is one too many. If an American soldier dies, it should be defending this country and its own citizens.
This post was edited on 10/9 at 9:50 pm


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94
OWLFAN86
Rice Fan
OT Mentor
Member since Jun 2004
143715 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

What's the worst that can happen TO US when "enemies fill the power vacuum?" Not trying to be a smartass, I'm legitimately asking. I don't know a ton about ME diplomacy, but it seems like a relatively lost cause.


imperialism/colonialism was always a political/military/diplomatic means to an economic end.

If we were to abadon these areas then Russia and more like China step in to help when needed and then those countries have the economic relationship

while the US and to a lesser extent Canada would be OK
Europe and South America would eventually fall under the greater influence of our econmic rivals


sure it would take 50, 60 , 100 years maybe more
but eventually, we would have to spill blood


TheCurmudgeon
LSU Fan
SE Louisiana, unfortunately
Member since Aug 2014
1108 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

Your argument is essentially that we should remain there in perpetuity. Yes, we've done some good there. But is it worth it for the cost in American lives and tax dollars?

The worst that can happen is our "enemies fill the power vacuum." What exactly does that mean for the US? The US mainland? Our global diplomacy and influence? The worst thing that happened to the US directly (9/11) had nothing to do with any power vacuums or troops on the ground.



You are correct, and no we dont need to stay over there forever. It's their VOLUNTARY problem, let them fix it.

My morning trip with my dog to get a cup of coffee at the arab-owned gas station around the corner in no way requires other American parents to have their children killed.


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52
Tigeralum2008
LSU Fan
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
12097 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

What's the worst that can happen TO US when "enemies fill the power vacuum?" Not trying to be a smartass, I'm legitimately asking


Look to Afghanistan. Groups like the Taliban take over, shelter Al Qaeda, and 9/11 happens

This post was edited on 10/9 at 9:57 pm


windshieldman
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Nov 2012
8302 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

Groups like the Taliban take over, shelter Al Qaeda, and 9/11 happens


Basically what happened when we got involved and tried to influence the Middle East to begin with


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32
SCLibertarian
South Carolina Fan
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
16441 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

If we were to abadon these areas then Russia and more like China step in to help when needed and then those countries have the economic relationship 

while the US and to a lesser extent Canada would be OK 
Europe and South America would eventually fall under the greater influence of our econmic rivals 

It's amazing how Trump has gotten the very people who protested the Iraq War 15 years ago to now argue for a foreign policy that justifies placing its soldiers in harm's way to continue the economic policies of the political establishment. Maybe I'm crazy, but the lives of the working class kids who join the military seem to be worth less to internationalist Dems and neocons than the business dealings that are paid for with American blood and tax dollars.


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OWLFAN86
Rice Fan
OT Mentor
Member since Jun 2004
143715 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
for those that DV'd OK fine

but what are you objecting to, thats just world history as its been and always will be


shit, google East India Company


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13
windshieldman
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Nov 2012
8302 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

It's amazing how Trump has gotten the very people who protested the Iraq War 15 years ago to now argue for a foreign policy that justifies placing its soldiers in harm's way to continue the economic policies of the political establishment.


What’s bad is none of them actually believe what they are saying and we all know it. None of them believe trump pulling troops out is a bad idea. 99% of the posters here know they are talking out their arse and pretending to be outraged. None of the people pissed off about trump give a frick about what’s happening in Syria


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83
Sentrius
USA Fan
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
55879 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

The Kurdish situation isn’t binary.


You're so confident this the case? So confident enough to put 50/100 troops in harms way?

We've lost several American operatives in Syria this year alone. Why should we continue risk American blood to hold up a stalemate you think can last forever in a part of the world that is not civilized at all?

What do we get out of that?

quote:

China doesn’t officially recognize Taiwan but they still exist due to a delicate diplomatic balance.


Having a body of water separating them from the mainland is certainly a factor there.

quote:

There are even parts of Spain that operate semiautonomously



Spain along with the rest of Europe is more civilized and polite than what we're talking about with Syria, Turkey, Iran and Iraq.


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11
OWLFAN86
Rice Fan
OT Mentor
Member since Jun 2004
143715 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

Maybe I'm crazy, but the lives of the working class kids who join the military seem to be worth less to internationalist Dems and neocons than the business dealings that are paid for with American blood and tax dollars.

got to cull the wheat from the chaff somehow

object if you want, but EVERY Society has done this
basic tribalism and economics


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03
windshieldman
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Nov 2012
8302 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

So my question to those that disagree with Trump. Y’all are perfectly fine with American troops being killed in Syria to protect Kurds against Turkey, who have already been fighting for centuries?


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34
Jyrdis
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2015
7204 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

imperialism/colonialism was always a political/military/diplomatic means to an economic end.



That’s what it’s always been about in the ME. We just have had complete shite for presidential candidates to choose from—read: all presidential candidates since GHWB would have put us in some conflict in some regard that tied us to shite in the ME.


OWLFAN86
Rice Fan
OT Mentor
Member since Jun 2004
143715 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
not just the ME

thats how international politics has always been



OweO
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, La
Member since Sep 2009
80142 posts
 Online 

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:


Well hes a multi billionaire, ran for president without any political experience and beat the most "qualified"+ person ever to run for the office. And to add the media and intelligence community were against him yet he pulled it off.

Then again you called him retarded.


Don't underestimate how unpopular Hilary Clinton is/was. Trump turned the presidential process into a clown show.

Steve Bannon and the fact he ran against Hilary Clinton is the reason he won.

What happened in the Republican primaries is that he drowned out the rest of the candidates and the media stayed laser focus on him because he was like reality show they didn't have to pay for. The other candidates laid back waiting for him to get out so they could "get serious", but the media attention and his bull shite just helped him picked up steam.

It fascinates me how many people are still loyal to him. Its almost like a cult like mindset.

And is he really a multi-billionaire? Trump is a brand that is supposed to be luxury. He got a lot of his money from his dad (although he claims his dad only gave him $2M. His dad had to bail him out of the Taj mahal deal in New Jersey.

He was associated with a business school that turned out to be a complete fraud. During the 90s he took a hit and thanks to the Apprentice show he was able to get back up. but don't let facts stop you from thinking the man is the real deal.


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58
RazorBroncs
Vanderbilt Fan
Ft. Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2013
6556 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
quote:

Europe and South America would eventually fall under the greater influence of our econmic rivals 


But how? What do they have to offer other than oil?

That STILL means that the US would have to keep troops there in perpetuity, lest China or Russia "gain influence" in the region.

quote:

sure it would take 50, 60 , 100 years maybe more 
but eventually, we would have to spill blood


That's not set in stone, so why WOULDN'T we pull out now and wait for another 50 years to see the results? Who knows what the global landscape will look like in 10 years, let alone 50-ish.

We may pull 100% of our troops out of the ME and nothing drastically changes. Maybe Putin dies tomorrow and our relationship wit Russia becomes cooperative. Maybe China has a major recession and revolution and can't afford influence in the ME.

I just don't think it's as cut-and-dry as "we move out, Russia and China move in." Even worst case scenario, the US could survive that.

Europe and South America are not our problem, we have enough economic power to bend them to our will even with Russian and Chinese influence backing them - and that's far from guaranteed.


Jyrdis
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2015
7204 posts

re: Turkey begins invasion of Kurdish held northeast Syria
I’m focusing in on the current context. I agree on international politics if you look at history. It can be argued that very few conflicts existed outside of economic means.


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