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re: Total Quality Management - Anyone Else Have Experience
Posted on 10/21/24 at 11:44 am to Teufelhunden
Posted on 10/21/24 at 11:44 am to Teufelhunden
quote:Lean Sigma if I remember correctly.
It's been rebranded as Lean and has had more success but still...
I saw an implementation. I thought it would help if there was more buy in.
Japanese definitely saw benefits, so why shouldn't we. The only reason I could come up with was it either wasn't being used properly and/or did not have the critical mass of buy-in.
1
Posted on 10/21/24 at 11:50 am to Sheep
quote:
I bought a signed copy of one of Deming's books at Goodwill that I sold for $50 on eBay
I heard that theantiquetiger resold it on Ebay for $200
Posted on 10/21/24 at 12:18 pm to CunningLinguist
quote:
Most quality organizations are useless. They don’t understand technical requirements and are wrong about 95% of the time on any given issue. If I were to run my organization, first thing i am doing is overhauling the QMS organization. Most of our supply base is the same with idiotic QA not understanding basic engineering or manufacturing principles.
The analogy I draw is that in a lot of organizations, QA is like the police department. Management (and processes) lean on them to make go/no-go decisions that are way over their heads. They operate with great autonomy, e.g. the QA analysts who check my team's work not only don't report to me (even on a "dotted line" basis), they don't even report to the director who oversees me.
This is totally wrong, IMO. QA should not be cops, they should be security guards. That is, they should be told where to go and what to look for based on what the engineers and their managers think might break. They need to check the things we don't have the time to check but know ought to be checked. They do not have the engineering expertise nor the business acumen to do what they're tasked with in most organizations, and that just makes everyone miserable.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 12:33 pm to Teufelhunden
quote:
Deming's principles revolutionized manufacturing in Japan and is the reason their products were vastly superior to ours in the 70s-90s.
My favorite boss ever was an old Ford engineer and plant manager. He worked directly with Deming to start Ford’s “Quality Is Job One” program. I believe they were the first American company to embrace Deming’s philosophy.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 1:19 pm to Teufelhunden
Deming's principles can be useful if applied correctly through statistical process control.
But it boils down to the fact that there is inherit normal variation in any system and to improve said system requires system improvements.
As such, making adjustments to a failing system is analogous to rearranging the lounge chairs on the Titanic.
But it boils down to the fact that there is inherit normal variation in any system and to improve said system requires system improvements.
As such, making adjustments to a failing system is analogous to rearranging the lounge chairs on the Titanic.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 2:04 pm to blueridgeTiger
The principles are good, the implementation is usually boggled. Data driven decisions may not promote creativity, but they can certainly support continual improvement and cost savings.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 2:38 pm to Porpus
quote:
. QA should not be cops, they should be security guards. That is, they should be told where to go and what to look for based on what the engineers and their managers think might break. They need to check the things we don't have the time to check but know ought to be checked. They do not have the engineering expertise nor the business acumen to do what they're tasked with in most organizations, and that just makes everyone miserable.
100% agree on that. In my run the company scenario, all QA come do a stint in manufacturing engineering. That is a good support function who bring value to design engineering. Most of these QA idiots never had to manufacture or design a part.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 2:49 pm to CunningLinguist
the 3 ring binder industry really appreciated it, whether it worked, or not.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 2:53 pm to CunningLinguist
And then there was the 1990's style of cost elimination. Send in a couple of contract cost cutters that reported to the home office. Pretty brutal operation.
I got to drinking with them one evening , they got drunk, and I asked them what there process was for pushing improvement. Simple stated, there are only 3-4 organization models, they identify the clients model , and force change to another. The change stress drives cost reduction
I got to drinking with them one evening , they got drunk, and I asked them what there process was for pushing improvement. Simple stated, there are only 3-4 organization models, they identify the clients model , and force change to another. The change stress drives cost reduction
Posted on 10/21/24 at 2:54 pm to blueridgeTiger
Let me guess, Chevron?
TQM devolved into TWOM - total waste of money.
TQM devolved into TWOM - total waste of money.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 3:03 pm to blueridgeTiger
Get your arse onto some scrum teams and cut cost. Screw common sense and screw handling your real work. Agile process is where it’s at. LOL
Back 20 years ago I had to show up at a low dollar defense contractors facility to support a lean six sigma initiative. We had production guys making paper airplanes to help show how savings could happen. They all knew the exercise was about eliminating some of their positions.
Good times.
Back 20 years ago I had to show up at a low dollar defense contractors facility to support a lean six sigma initiative. We had production guys making paper airplanes to help show how savings could happen. They all knew the exercise was about eliminating some of their positions.
Good times.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 5:02 pm to td1
quote:
I’m buried in TPS reports. I have to get them all in by Friday or Lumbergh is going to make me come in on Saturday.
Did you get the memo about the new cover sheets?
Posted on 10/21/24 at 6:06 pm to auie93
quote:
After 3 or 4 years of this DEI garbage, the corp I work for is rebranding it IEB (Inclusion, Equity, and Belonging) heading into 2025. Same shite, different acronym.
In my line of work, it should be changed to DIE. That's what happens when you get unqualified people in many dangerous industries.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 6:09 pm to Teufelhunden
quote:Alternate title: Your logistics chain better be running at 100% or you're fricked.
It's been rebranded as Lean
Posted on 10/21/24 at 6:21 pm to CunningLinguist
quote:
Most quality organizations are useless. They don’t understand technical requirements and are wrong about 95% of the time on any given issue. If I were to run my organization, first thing i am doing is overhauling the QMS organization. Most of our supply base is the same with idiotic QA not understanding basic engineering or manufacturing principles.
I agree. When the job gets behind, all of that "quality bullshite" (and even safety) is usually thrown out the window, and production is the only thing that matters to the big bosses at this point. They often under bid the job, and everyone is behind before they even start.
Most of these problems are caused by management not knowing about what they are supervising.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 6:41 pm to blueridgeTiger
I think it started as TQMS then moved to ISO 9000. Finally it started moving to six sigma. Been a while so might be off on terms and order of change. originally there was some benefit if you were in engineering, needed to retain records and justify decisions. It put some standards and protocols in place. After a while, it became malicious compliance. Everything was in order to address audits but not much benefit. I could see where there might be some usefulness if you have a large organization or folks that aren’t on tight project timelines.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 6:56 pm to blueridgeTiger
I had a lot of experience. It was a fad that came and went. What did you want to know? I worked for one company that followed it and was VP of quality for a second company that probably hired me for my experience in it and a third where I replaced it.
Honestly? I was never much of a fan of trying to improve quality with a program. Quality is more of a culture thing that few companies want to commit to the culture changes required to achieve.
I probably still have a box of TQN badges in the attic. I can assure you a spiffy looking badge and a TQB article in every month's company magazine might make the president happy, but it won't improve quality.
This sounds sort'a Bla Bla Bla. It is a lot more complicated than that. MY field was pharmaceutical which is tightly regulated toward quality reliability compliance
Not sure about ISO now. IT was a really political thing when it started. ISO has nothing to do with quality. It is strictly a program of standard compliance.
IMO, having an ISO compliant company doesn't mean squat as far as making a quality product goes. I was VP quality/regulatory compliance in two ISO certified companies.
In drug business, FDA could care less about ISO. Probably the same in any other heavily regulated industries.
Honestly? I was never much of a fan of trying to improve quality with a program. Quality is more of a culture thing that few companies want to commit to the culture changes required to achieve.
I probably still have a box of TQN badges in the attic. I can assure you a spiffy looking badge and a TQB article in every month's company magazine might make the president happy, but it won't improve quality.
This sounds sort'a Bla Bla Bla. It is a lot more complicated than that. MY field was pharmaceutical which is tightly regulated toward quality reliability compliance
Not sure about ISO now. IT was a really political thing when it started. ISO has nothing to do with quality. It is strictly a program of standard compliance.
IMO, having an ISO compliant company doesn't mean squat as far as making a quality product goes. I was VP quality/regulatory compliance in two ISO certified companies.
In drug business, FDA could care less about ISO. Probably the same in any other heavily regulated industries.
This post was edited on 10/21/24 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 10/21/24 at 7:12 pm to blueridgeTiger
They tried it in the military in the 90s. You can meatiness how that worked with no with everybody having a say. Didn’t last 6 months.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 7:32 pm to MeridianDog
"Quality is more of a cultural thing". absolutely 100% correct
now pull the dozen or so naysayers on this board in and tell them the company is going bankrupt, what change will help
now pull the dozen or so naysayers on this board in and tell them the company is going bankrupt, what change will help
Posted on 10/21/24 at 8:01 pm to MeridianDog
Back in the day, I worked for a manufacturing company that was building components for an industry leader. Quality was always on point and we took pride in what we sold. Wasn’t good enough.
So they came and made is start with the ISO9001/six sigma circus. It took countless hours and courses and consultants, but after a little over a year, we were through it all and flying that stupid flag. All I know is that after +$1M spent, we lost the next bid. We lost it to a company out of Ireland who wasn’t certified in anything.
Shortly afterwards all our jobs were gone and the company folded. I’ve heard so many horror stories when I tell mine to others about other big companies doing the same thing. In the end, it’s all just for show.
So they came and made is start with the ISO9001/six sigma circus. It took countless hours and courses and consultants, but after a little over a year, we were through it all and flying that stupid flag. All I know is that after +$1M spent, we lost the next bid. We lost it to a company out of Ireland who wasn’t certified in anything.
Shortly afterwards all our jobs were gone and the company folded. I’ve heard so many horror stories when I tell mine to others about other big companies doing the same thing. In the end, it’s all just for show.
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