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Time to rethink how students should react to school shooters?

Posted on 2/16/18 at 7:30 am
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
58870 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 7:30 am
Link is to Townhall.com. LINK

quote:

In 1974, Israel endured the Ma’alot Massacre in which “Palestinian” terrorists took 115 people hostage at Netiv Meir Elementary School. Twenty-two children and three others were killed and 68 injured. Israel now requires schools with 100 or more students to have a guard posted. The civilian police force handles the entire security system of all schools from kindergarten through college. The Ministry of Education funds shelters and fences, reinforces school buses, and hires and trains guards.

Guards don’t just stand around. They check everyone entering, and engage threats.

And yeah, they’ve got guns.The lawful purposes for carrying guns are very clear: protect school personnel and students, create a sense of security, deter the ill-intentioned, and provide self-defense.

But more to the point, Israel’s Police Community & Civil Guard Department have a preventative care program that encourages safe behavior and offers violence protection strategies in normal situations. Yet students are also trained in how to respond to an active shooter situation.

Ben Goldstein, an American who made aliyah to Israel, and now serves as volunteer security and supporter of IDF soldiers, says America is behind the curve. Nevertheless, he says, it doesn’t take much for students and teachers to protect themselves.

“Barricade, barricade. Are desks movable? Is the teacher’s desk movable? Can they barricade inside of 20 seconds? If the shooter gets in, the kids should take whatever they’ve got and attack. They can’t just sit there frozen or they will die. America does earthquake drills, why not active shooter drills? More kids have been killed by shooters than earthquakes.”

Barricading works, says Goldstein.In an active shooter situation, where a gunman is roaming a campus, five minutes is a lifetime, enough time for law enforcement to get to the scene. “In those five minutes, the shooter will have to move from class to class, reload, clear malfunctions, all that stuff takes time. And during gunfire lulls, kids must be taught to do something. Don’t freeze. Moving once gets you out of that deer-in-headlights space. Take command of the classroom.”

There is no other way, says Goldstein, and “sometimes children must take matters into their own hands.If the school has no proper security – two guards in case one gets shot, and no active shooter protocol, and no doors to withstand an attack – then the child needs to run as fast as they can AWAY from the shooter.”...




Posted by lynxcat
Member since Jan 2008
25337 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:02 am to
This sounds great on paper but the vast majority of people are really bad under pressure. In the moment, students are not going to do this. You may be able to train the teachers to barricade using the desk since it is a simple action that can be engrained in them prior to the event.
Posted by dfintlyHmmrd
Jigga City
Member since Dec 2016
1408 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:06 am to
quote:

If the shooter gets in, the kids should take whatever they’ve got and attack.


So you think we can train kids paralyzed with fear and train them to just grab a stapler or something t and attack an active shooter probably armed with a AR-15 ?

That's an even bigger pipe dream than the folks who think we can provide training to teachers and get them to successfully engage a shooter with a rifle with a handgun. That's just not realistic at all to think middle or high school kids can do that. How many of them would be killed while they are trying to hurl classroom objects at someone with a assault rifle.

And to everyone who will call me a moron for referring to a AR-15 as an assault rifle when it is used in school shooting it becomes an assault rifle. The vast majority of the time our soldiers in war use their M-16's they are firing in semi-automatic. The shooters are using nearly the exact same rifle, in the same manner as soldiers in war. That said I support the civilian right to own AR15s.
This post was edited on 2/16/18 at 8:07 am
Posted by theunknownknight
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
61345 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:06 am to
We just need to train all kids in Kung Fu and how to kick arse again.

You know why this shite barely happened in the 80’s? EVERYBODY knew karate and the crazy kids knew they were in for an arse kicking if they poked the bear.

We were raised on Swayze’s rage and were always on edge to WOLVERINE the shite out of somebody.
This post was edited on 2/16/18 at 8:09 am
Posted by rintintin
Life is Life
Member since Nov 2008
17102 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:11 am to
quote:

This sounds great on paper but the vast majority of people are really bad under pressure


That's what the training is for.

I mean it can't hurt. We have fire drills. Make sure mainly the teachers are aware of what needs to be done. It only takes a few to help barricade a door.

Thinking a class of 30 students and not at least 2 of them are capable of helping the teacher barricade the door is putting very little faith in people.
Posted by PrivatePublic
Member since Nov 2012
17848 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:11 am to
Barricading definitely needs to be taught and practiced.

Beyond that, kids are kids and can't be expected to defend themselves. Armed guards or train and arm the teachers.
Posted by VinegarStrokes
Georgia
Member since Oct 2015
14273 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:15 am to
quote:

arm the teachers.


you want to arm the stupid sluts who are going around sleeping with 15 year old boys? yes, let's put firearms into the hands of more mentally challenged individuals...
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
58870 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:18 am to
The point is to develop tactics that slow him down, buy time for the students. Cops can usually be there within 5-7 minutes once they get the call.

Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89398 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:22 am to
quote:

So you think we can train kids paralyzed with fear and train them to just grab a stapler or something t and attack an active shooter probably armed with a AR-15 ?


It's better than having them just sit there waiting to be slaughtered.

Is it ideal, of course not. Is it better than nothing, you betcha.

quote:

And to everyone who will call me a moron for referring to a AR-15 as an assault rifle when it is used in school shooting it becomes an assault rifle


You're a moron.
Posted by PrivatePublic
Member since Nov 2012
17848 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:25 am to
quote:

you want to arm the stupid sluts who are going around sleeping with 15 year old boys? yes, let's put firearms into the hands of more mentally challenged individuals...


you conveniently left out where i also said "train them". part of training is identifying whether said trainee is mentally competent to have access to a firearm or not.

at least that's how it would work in my system.

is it ideal? no.
will there be friendly fire? yes.
do i think it's better than the current system where kids have no defense? yes
Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
10128 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:26 am to


Coming soon to a school near you.
Posted by Sterling Archer
Member since Aug 2012
8472 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:27 am to
You frickers watch too many movies
Posted by PrivatePublic
Member since Nov 2012
17848 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:27 am to
quote:

The point is to develop tactics that slow him down, buy time for the students.


oh absolutely agree with this part.

quote:

Cops can usually be there within 5-7 minutes once they get the call.


don't buy this part. even if there is a cop nearby that can meet this window, he isn't storming the school until backup arrives several minutes later, and i imagine most jurisdictions wait until trained SWAT arrive. talking 20-30 minutes now.

Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
58870 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:28 am to
Training is key.

The guy who stopped Luke Woodham was on the National Guard pistol competition team. THAT is the guy who should be allowed to carry concealed at a school, not any teacher who just wants to carry one.
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:28 am to
quote:

you conveniently left out where i also said "train them". part of training is identifying whether said trainee is mentally competent to have access to a firearm or not.

at least that's how it would work in my system.

is it ideal? no.

will there be friendly fire? yes.

do i think it's better than the current system where kids have no defense? yes


We can’t even pay good teachers enough to have a halfway decent public school system in most cities and this guy wants to pay to train teachers how to stop something that has happened 31 times since 1999.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
58870 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:30 am to
bullshite. Average teacher in jackson makes $45K a year.

I'm all for allowing law enforcement to offer firearms training to teachers who want to take said training. By training, I don't mean the minimum 8 hours required for a permit. I mean real training, just charge a fee. Teacher or district can pay for it.
Posted by Brazos
Member since Oct 2013
20557 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:32 am to
I disagree with you if we are talking about high school kids. High schools have young men that are definitely strong enough to make a difference in a situation like this.
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:32 am to
Jackson public schools rated F



Cool, let’s let the district pay for training when they can’t even provide a good education.

$45k isn’t that much btw and the average I saw was closer to $41k. Average in the US is $56k
This post was edited on 2/16/18 at 8:36 am
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
58870 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:35 am to
quit being a dumb frick. That district wastes alot of money on other stuff. The teachers are getting paid. $45K is average. Lowest is in low 30's and quite a few make in the 60's.

Where JPS is wasting money is on poorly trained "school resource officers". They won't let JPS or the Sheriff's Office provide security or investigate. The private schools hire Hinds deputies to provide security at school. JPS is such a control freak and doesn't want any bad news getting out, that it won't allow law enforcement on the premises but has its own.
Posted by dfintlyHmmrd
Jigga City
Member since Dec 2016
1408 posts
Posted on 2/16/18 at 8:37 am to
Yes physically strong enough for sure.. they still are 14-18 years old, theres not many of them who could quickly be trained in the scope of a active shooter drill to react effectively under the stress of the situation IMO.
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