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re: The workforce shortage is real and ridiculous
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:43 am to Epic Cajun
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:43 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
at what wage should a person qualify for welfare programs
There shouldn't be welfare programs for them to qualify for, at least at the federal level.
If California wants to have lavish welfare programs, that's fine. I shouldn't be the one paying for it however.
2
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:44 am to Centinel
quote:
There shouldn't be welfare programs for them to qualify for, at least at the federal level.
this is my entire point
posters in here want to act like the low wage workforce is controlled by the free market, but it isn't a free market when the government is subsidizing it
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:49 am to Salmon
quote:
it isn't a free market when the government is subsidizing it
you realize this cuts both ways right?
Take away all government welfare, *and* remove the minimum wage, and I bet you'd see wages actually fall in some cases.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:51 am to CptRusty
quote:
ake away all government welfare, *and* remove the minimum wage, and I bet you'd see wages actually fall in some cases.
I think some businesses would try, sure, but I don't think they would be very successful long term and the market would actually call for increase in wages over time
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:55 am to Centinel
quote:I agree 100%.
There shouldn't be welfare programs for them to qualify for, at least at the federal level.
If California wants to have lavish welfare programs, that's fine. I shouldn't be the one paying for it however.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:56 am to Salmon
That's what I'm saying though. I believe it's possible that there are some jobs that market rates would stabilize below minimum wage, but that's only possible if the alternative is zero.
Case in point: illegal immigrants. One of the issues is that they are being exploited as essentially slave labor since they're off-books and the "employer" is not beholden to minimum wage laws. That's the market in action. Granter there are other complicating factors, but I think it makes the point. Some jobs are just so simple and easy to do that the labor is nearly worthless.
Case in point: illegal immigrants. One of the issues is that they are being exploited as essentially slave labor since they're off-books and the "employer" is not beholden to minimum wage laws. That's the market in action. Granter there are other complicating factors, but I think it makes the point. Some jobs are just so simple and easy to do that the labor is nearly worthless.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:58 am to thadcastle
This isn’t the country our grandfathers fought for. It’s an embarrassment to the point of where we are questioning our American pride.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 10:59 am to CptRusty
quote:
Granter there are other complicating factors
yeah like the fact that they have no leverage whatsoever simply because they are illegal and can get turned into the government if they complain or leave
I don't really consider that to be a good example "the market"
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:01 am to Salmon
quote:
like the fact that they have no leverage whatsoever simply because they are illegal and can get turned into the government if they complain or leave
The only thing this does is de facto remove the minimum wage. They still have the alternative of not coming here.
What you're saying is that low wages are preferable to even lower - or *no* - wages...which is exactly the point I've been making.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:04 am to turnpiketiger
Worker shortage is extremely simple.
Our government, through massive unemployment benefit increases, created an INFLATED EXPECTATION of unskilled labor wages.
that's it.
Our government, through massive unemployment benefit increases, created an INFLATED EXPECTATION of unskilled labor wages.
that's it.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:04 am to CptRusty
quote:
They still have the alternative of not coming here.
they are still making more money here as "slave labor" than they were where they came from
quote:
What you're saying is that low wages are preferable to even lower - or *no* - wages...which is exactly the point I've been making.
my original point was that corporations use government welfare to subsidize their low wage workforce and then some "conservative" posters argued with me about it and acted like the low wage workforce was a purely free market
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:10 am to Salmon
quote:
my original point was that corporations use government welfare to subsidize their low wage workforc
I didn't even think this was a debatable or controversial point, but this is the OT.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:10 am to Salmon
quote:
they are still making more money here as "slave labor" than they were where they came from
Yes. Or, put another way:
quote:
low wages are preferable to even lower - or *no* - wages...which is exactly the point I've been making.
quote:
my original point was that corporations use government welfare to subsidize their low wage workforce and then some "conservative" posters argued with me about it and acted like the low wage workforce was a purely free market
No I understand. I'm just saying that I think it's not obvious to me that wages would rise in the absence of a social safety net, at least not across the board, for the reason we seem to agree upon above.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:12 am to CptRusty
quote:
The only thing this does is de facto remove the minimum wage. They still have the alternative of not coming here.
What you're saying is that low wages are preferable to even lower - or *no* - wages...which is exactly the point I've been making.
This is an asinine arguement
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:12 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
This is an asinine arguement
then refute it or frick off.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:14 am to CptRusty
quote:
then refute it or frick off.
You're trying to compare migrant workers from a country run by cartels to low wage workers from a free country.
If a Mexican could come here for the same amount of money they make in Mexico they would every day and twice on Sunday for the societal reasons, it would have nothing to do with money.
It makes no sense
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:18 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
If a Mexican could come here for the same amount of money they make in Mexico they would every day and twice on Sunday for the societal reasons, it would have nothing to do with money.
Thank you for making my point. In the absence of minimum wage laws and social safety net, the market rate for some jobs is lower than federal minimum wage.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:19 am to CptRusty
quote:
Thank you for making my point. In the absence of minimum wage laws and social safety net, the market rate for some jobs is lower than federal minimum wage.
What I said indicated absolutely nothing about what that wage would be.
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:21 am to CptRusty
quote:
In the absence of minimum wage laws and social safety net, the market rate for some jobs is lower than federal minimum wage.
but in the addition of immigration laws
Posted on 6/17/21 at 11:21 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
What I said indicated absolutely nothing about what that wage would be.
we don't need your speculation as to what the wage "would be", we know illegal immigrants work for less than minimum wage.
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