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Started By
Message
re: The workforce shortage is real and ridiculous
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:49 am to baldona
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:49 am to baldona
My kids had a lot of trouble getting summer jobs, too. They’re not lying. Many of those help wanted signs are BS. Lots of lazy and incompetent managers, especially at franchise restaurants and fast food places.
1
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:52 am to 62Tigerfan
quote:
Many of those help wanted signs are BS
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:52 am to RT1941
quote:
No company saw this astronomical increase in materials coming 9 months ago. We've amended many contracts since last October and luckily our clients have agreed to increase the contract amount while understanding these are difficult times.
Or you could just put an escalation clause into your proposals for future reference
Especially with copper...
Here is a 25 year copper chart. Now ask yourself...if copper is a significant portion of your bid...would you be anything other than a complete moron if you didn't include an escalation clause in your proposal?
Does it look like a commodity that's immune to price fluctuations?
Bottom line - if you're in the electrical industry and are doing projects of any meaningful magnitude you're a moron for not including a copper escalation clause into your proposals.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:53 am to MorbidTheClown
quote:
stop paying people to sit at home
no, you don't understand. These people have realized they are above working menial jobs. They'd rather starve and be evicted than go back to work after the horrendous toll the restaurant business has visited upon their broken bodies.
The only sensible option is for businesses to double (at least!) their labor costs immediately. If they can't do that, then frick em, they deserve to fail. Walmart and Amazon will pick up the slack.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:54 am to Powerman
quote:A near 250% increase in material will exceed that escalation clause in most contracts. Do you not agree?
Escalation clause moron
These are extraordinary times right now. That escalation clause has a cap in any contract we negotiate. There's no way a client would allow a material cost to exceed even 100% of the initial contract amount without going back to the table to review the final construction cost for the project.
Now I deal in large part with Federal and State projects, and even our dysfunctional government isn't stupid enough to accept an enormous increase in materials without a second glance.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:54 am to IAmNERD
quote:
Just got back from the beach and nearly every single place is hiring.
There were exactly four people working the breakfast shift at McDonald's one morning. It is ridiculous.
I feel bad for those four as I have been seeing some straight up mean and angry customers too. As if the minimum wage check out person has anything to do with it.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:55 am to CptRusty
quote:
The only sensible option is for businesses to double (at least!) their labor costs immediately. If they can't do that, then frick em, they deserve to fail. Walmart and Amazon will pick up the slack.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the pay needs to be doubled immediately. I realize you're being hyperbolic here but it underscores an otherwise good point that you might have.
quote:
If they can't do that, then frick em, they deserve to fail. Walmart and Amazon will pick up the slack.
Which may beg the question. Do small businesses work for anyone other than the business owner? If they can't compete with companies like Walmart and Amazon who are in their own right notoriously not great employers, then maybe your small business doesn't have much to offer to the worker.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:56 am to RT1941
quote:
You're correct. No company saw this astronomical increase in materials coming 9 months ago. We've amended many contracts since last October and luckily our clients have agreed to increase the contract amount while understanding these are difficult times.
Yep. Its a fricking bitch.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:56 am to RT1941
quote:
Now I deal in large part with Federal and State projects
I don't envy you
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:56 am to bee Rye
quote:
I don’t see how you could factor in the price increases in copper, lumber, steel and PVC over the last 6-9 months and still win any bids
We always make the subs bid a flat % over material cost. This allows for market fluctuations over time.
Source: Me, making the decisions.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:57 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No company saw this astronomical increase in materials coming 9 months ago.
quote:
Yep. Its a fricking bitch.
Let's get real
How stupid would you have to be to be completely blindsided by an increase in material costs with all of the supply chain issues that have existed over the past 15 months?
Posted on 6/14/21 at 10:58 am to DiamondDog
quote:
We always make the subs bid a flat % over material cost. This allows for market fluctuations over time.
Source: Me, making the decisions.
You're smarter than most people here that's for sure
The material cost is what it is and will be paid for by the owner one way or another
If a contractor is dumb enough to lose money on material I don't feel bad for them
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:00 am to Powerman
quote:
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the pay needs to be doubled immediately.
$600 / week works out to $15/hr@40hrs / week.
Now help me out on the math. If minimum wage was $7.50...
quote:
Do small businesses work for anyone other than the business owner?
Who gives a frick? I'm just saying they shouldn't have to compete with Uncle Sam and his infinite bag of tax dollars for labor.
If the labor market forces wages up, so be it, but that isn't what's happening.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:00 am to RT1941
quote:
These are extraordinary times right now. That escalation clause has a cap in any contract we negotiate. There's no way a client would allow a material cost to exceed even 100% of the initial contract amount without going back to the table to review the final construction cost for the project.
Now I deal in large part with Federal and State projects, and even our dysfunctional government isn't stupid enough to accept an enormous increase in materials without a second glance.
I’ve always disagreed with this approach. You may review material costs as they escalate but you can’t expect a sub to ever “lock in” raw good prices beyond 30 days without upfront payment.
The best way is to make sure you just cap their profit % on materials. Usually 7.5% but standard allowance is 10%.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:02 am to CptRusty
quote:
$600 / week works out to $15/hr@40hrs / week.
Except that the enhanced UE benefit is no longer 600 a week and hasn't been for some time
It's 300 a week
quote:
Now help me out on the math. If minimum wage was $7.50...
Most of these people were making above minimum wage before the pandemic. Seems like a stupid place to start.
quote:
Who gives a frick?
Society might give a frick.
quote:
I'm just saying they shouldn't have to compete with Uncle Sam and his infinite bag of tax dollars for labor.
And that's fair
But you will have to compete with the big box stores. And if you can't compete with them then frick you and your business.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:03 am to RT1941
quote:
There's no way a client would allow a material cost to exceed even 100% of the initial contract amount without going back to the table to review the final construction cost for the project.
This. Just because you've covered your own arse with escalation clauses doesn't mean that the work is still economically viable.
My company (MEP) is busy as frick with large scale projects (hospital, industrial, education) for clients with tons of cash, but mid-sized new construction has completely dried up in the past year. Hopefully they come back soon, but not too soon.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:03 am to DiamondDog
quote:
e best way is to make sure you just cap their profit % on materials. Usually 7.5% but standard allowance is 10%.
This is obviously a sensible approach, but I would think you'd still want to review the economic viability of the project prior to pulling the trigger.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:05 am to Powerman
quote:
And if you can't compete with them then frick you and your business.
Small business doesnt' have the luxury.
It's almost like you forgot the government shut many down over the past year and they don't have unlimited funds.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:06 am to CptRusty
quote:
This is obviously a sensible approach, but I would think you'd still want to review the economic viability of the project prior to pulling the trigger.
That’s beyond my job scope. That’s for the budget and project director.
My team just sources and negotiates their agreements. When costs start to rise, we renegotiate/review but we have contractual allowances built in that trigger at thresholds and caps.
Whether the project is viable, that’s for the project’s decisions makers.
Posted on 6/14/21 at 11:06 am to CptRusty
quote:
This is obviously a sensible approach, but I would think you'd still want to review the economic viability of the project prior to pulling the trigger.
Obviously
But some projects are mandatory. You can't just neglect a maintenance need because the costs are more than you'd like.
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