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re: The odds that we live in a simulation are close to 1

Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:08 pm to
Posted by Gee Grenouille
Member since Jul 2018
8546 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:08 pm to
"Intelligent design" refers specifically to the origin of species, which has been proven false beyond all doubt.

not here, please not here. I only have one cave to hide in.
Posted by Tyga Woods
South Central Jupiter Island, FL
Member since Sep 2016
42962 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

I have to get inside Zion,


Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29134 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

It is, and we're witnessing/about to witness the development of truly impressive AI first hand, which is very cool.

If you haven't yet, look up GPT-3. It's capable of producing the most human-like language yet. Obviously it's not "intelligent" yet, but it's cool nonetheless.

Personally, I don't think we are anywhere close to creating a true AI. It would have to be conscious, and we don't even know what consciousness *is*, much less how to create one. For all we know, consciousness could be a manifestation of a soul, something that might exist in a higher dimension. In that case, it would be physically impossible for us to interact with and study one. And we damned sure couldn't create one if we lack the dimensions to do so.
Posted by litenin
Houston
Member since Mar 2016
2822 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:16 pm to
It's definitely more likely that we're in a simulation than not. If I'm fortunate to live another 40 years, I fully expect that a simulation should be possible that feels like life feels today.

If you 'die' in this life and suddenly wake up in another body (that is old and barely clinging to life), would you decide to pull the plug and find out if there is a true afterlife? Or just pick another simulation that allows you to be born in a specific year and go through the game again?
Posted by jchamil
Member since Nov 2009
19930 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

It's definitely more likely that we're in a simulation than not


How so?
Posted by Porcine Human
Benton, Arkansas
Member since Feb 2016
11703 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:22 pm to
I don't think an AGI would need to be conscious to trigger the singularity. All that's required is better learning mechanisms and hardware/computing power.

As to a soul, it seems neurons should be fully capable of producing consciousness. But yeah we still don't fully understand it yet.
Posted by Klingler7
Houston
Member since Nov 2009
12620 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:24 pm to
I did not study these ideas in philosophy. So..do I have free will in these simulations ? Is reality real or am I merely a schizophrenic thinking this world is real ? Do I "live" forever or I am the only one alive ?

Am I creating my reality ?
Posted by Porcine Human
Benton, Arkansas
Member since Feb 2016
11703 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

So..do I have free will in these simulations


You don't have free will even if it isn't a simulation.

Posted by OweO
Plaquemine, La
Member since Sep 2009
122548 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

You don't say.



You say this as if you know for sure.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29134 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:35 pm to
quote:

I don't think an AGI would need to be conscious to trigger the singularity. All that's required is better learning mechanisms and hardware/computing power.
I disagree. We only learn new things because we have the creativity to wonder about the world. And we are creative because we are conscious. We can develop new ML techniques, but it will still only "learn" what we tell it to learn. We have more than enough total computing power to simulate a single human brain, we just don't have a clue about how to program consciousness.
quote:

As to a soul, it seems neurons should be fully capable of producing consciousness. But yeah we still don't fully understand it yet.
I don't know why it would seem that neurons should be capable of producing consciousness on their own. Most animals have neurons, but few are self-aware. We can't even be sure that any animals are self-aware besides us.
Posted by saintsfan22
baton rouge
Member since May 2006
80955 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

Given how quickly our technology is advancing

No hoverboards or flying cars yet.
Posted by Havoc
Member since Nov 2015
39578 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:45 pm to
Is TD a simulation?
Posted by Porcine Human
Benton, Arkansas
Member since Feb 2016
11703 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

I don't know why it would seem that neurons should be capable of producing consciousness on their own. Most animals have neurons, but few are self-aware. We can't even be sure that any animals are self-aware besides us.


Well I think consciousness and self-awareness are different things. A quote from a Scientific American blog says that "Consciousness is awareness of one's body and one's environment; self-awareness is recognition of that consciousness." An animal can be conscious without being fully self-aware. Mirror tests and other studies have shown that some animals are self-aware, though.

As to neurons, there is zero evidence that anything else is going on, so therefore neurons provide consciousness. I know it's not that simple, but supernatural explanations for consciousness are impossible to prove and should be discarded. I was recently listening to a podcast with a neuroscientist, and nothing so far indicates some other process going on. Here's that podcast if you're interested: Lex Fridman and Jeff Hawkins
This post was edited on 8/7/20 at 2:58 pm
Posted by ThuperThumpin
Member since Dec 2013
9605 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:02 pm to
You probably already listened to it but if not you would like the Joe Rogan interview with Nick Bostrom LINK
Posted by litenin
Houston
Member since Mar 2016
2822 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:11 pm to
Actually I have no idea, just my opinion based on the odds and how quickly technology is expected to increase over the next few decades.
Posted by go ta hell ole miss
Member since Jan 2007
14800 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:20 pm to
The hypothesis that simulations are technically possible remains unproven, so statistical calculations need to consider not just the number of state spaces, but the intrinsic model uncertainty. This is conceivably possible through a Bayesian analysis of the problem. Using Bayesian model averaging, it has been shown that the probability that we are sims is in fact less than 50%, tending towards that value in the limit of an infinite number of simulations. You must condition upon the fact that humanity has not yet birthed or created such simulations, or ignore it. If humanity does start producing such simulations, then this would radically shift the odds and make it very probable we are in fact simulated.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29134 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 3:47 pm to
quote:

Well I think consciousness and self-awareness are different things. A quote from a Scientific American blog says that "Consciousness is awareness of one's body and one's environment; self-awareness is recognition of that consciousness." An animal can be conscious without being fully self-aware. Mirror tests and other studies have shown that some animals are self-aware, though.

Well if that's the case, then we are even further from creating AI.
quote:

As to neurons, there is zero evidence that anything else is going on, so therefore neurons provide consciousness. I know it's not that simple, but supernatural explanations for consciousness are impossible to prove and should be discarded. I was recently listening to a podcast with a neuroscientist, and nothing so far indicates some other process going on. Here's that podcast if you're interested: Lex Fridman and Jeff Hawkins
Higher dimensions should not necessarily imply something "supernatural". Rather, it could very well be true that higher dimensions exist, but we are just not capable of detecting or understanding them. As far as we have been able to gather, we live in a 4 dimensional universe, 3 spatial plus time. But why? Why are we able to move through 3 dimensions as we please, but we are only able to move through time in one direction, and at a pace governed by the universe itself? If there were 5 dimensional beings that perceived time as a 4th spatial dimension, through which they could move as effortlessly as we move through our 3 spatial dimensions, then we would have no hope of understanding how that works, what it would look like, or what the hell the 5th dimension is. What if the expansion of our universe is how we perceive that 5th dimension here in 4 dimensions?

So we might call it "supernatural", but it could very well be natural but we just can't comprehend it.

Posted by Bunsbert Montcroff
Boise ID
Member since Jan 2008
5789 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 4:01 pm to
quote:

Physicists and philosophers discuss it as a very real possibility.

and their arguments haven't gotten any more convincing. first it was evil demons, then brains in vats. i guess this is the digital flavor of those same arguments for solipsism.
Posted by Capstone2017
I love lead paint- PokeyTiger
Member since Dec 2013
2235 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 4:25 pm to
I think you don't understand how odds and probability work.
Posted by Porcine Human
Benton, Arkansas
Member since Feb 2016
11703 posts
Posted on 8/7/20 at 4:37 pm to
It’s basic probability. I think I understand it.
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