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Message
re: The math for buying a home no longer works, per WSJ
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:42 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:42 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:Exactly.
who is "we"?
Scruffy wants to know where that is.
He is definitely a landlord. Probably section 8 too.
I have friends who lived in Jackson, MS, and they couldn’t get a single bedroom apt anywhere near that…at least in an are you would survive.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 3:44 pm
0
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:44 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Buying a house to live in and calling it an investment has never been a good idea. At any time in history if you broke even after taxes, insurance, interest and maintenance you were fortunate. If you did the maintenance yourself you may have saved some money but you had an opportunity cost that is impossible to calculate. If you did make more than it cost to own and you did not down size or buy again in an area where prices had not increased all you did was swap one "asset" for another of equal value. This does not include the fact that owning a pile of bricks can be an anchor that keeps you from growing your career and taking advantage of opportunities. Owning a home is an expense. If you are fortunate it may not cost you much more than renting to own it. The piece of mind from owning is very valuable to some but that is often replaced by regret over the costs of owning.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:46 pm to meansonny
quote:
What are the most popular businesses today with young people?
Whatever they are, don't use them.
Starbucks? Don't use them.
Netflix? Don't use them.
Amazon? Don't use them.
It is amazing at how big these companies get by providing convenience. And then charging for that convenience.
Shocker.
The way to save money is to spend less.
Hell... you can even use your 401k/retirement savings for a down-payment on your first home.
And you'd need another thread to review how to save money on the ownership of a car.
My son saved and bought a $4k Honda. Without full coverage, it is $70/month to insure the vehicle.
The fact that this got downvoted tells me all I need to know about the mindset of the younger generation
There's about 30 things nowadays that these "kids" just "have to have". The concept of sacrificing to achieve an end is not a concept they can grasp.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:46 pm to Scruffy
quote:
And it isn’t like times past where those in the worst neighborhoods were all trying to “pick themselves up by their bootstraps”.
Nowadays, you’ll fricking die in those areas.
True, but there are reasonably safe areas in most cities that are largely overlooked because they aren't trendy or because they are a little less convenient.
I have the same advice for the flu, the weather, and crime - do what you can to avoid the worst of it. But recognize that you can never insulate yourself from it completely.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:47 pm to Mushroom1968
Good post.
I pay Costco about $18 for 3 pounds of coffee.
I'd guess that my pot runs about $0.25 to $0.50 each morning.
I drink about 2 pots a day (imagine if I needed that much starbucks).
The "arguers" are trying to make a big deal out of my 3 examples.
But it truly is a lifestyle choice (as your post indicates). 3 examples are only that.
The best thing I learned how to do in college was "learn to be poor".
I tell my kids that all the time.
We tried our best to continue that type of spending as far into our family as possible.
"There are families in Georgia living off of $30k/yr. Why can't we? (Even though our take home was $60k).
Hell... with 401k contributions, HSA, and insurance, my take home today is still about $60k a year (total comp is close to $170k for me). My wife works on top of those figures.
quote:
First off, Starbucks small coffee is actually less than $3
I pay Costco about $18 for 3 pounds of coffee.
I'd guess that my pot runs about $0.25 to $0.50 each morning.
I drink about 2 pots a day (imagine if I needed that much starbucks).
The "arguers" are trying to make a big deal out of my 3 examples.
But it truly is a lifestyle choice (as your post indicates). 3 examples are only that.
The best thing I learned how to do in college was "learn to be poor".
I tell my kids that all the time.
We tried our best to continue that type of spending as far into our family as possible.
"There are families in Georgia living off of $30k/yr. Why can't we? (Even though our take home was $60k).
Hell... with 401k contributions, HSA, and insurance, my take home today is still about $60k a year (total comp is close to $170k for me). My wife works on top of those figures.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:48 pm to meansonny
quote:
I drink about 2 pots a day
Do you see a cardiologist?
Learning to appreciate black coffee is another little life hack that has served me well. I still go to a local indie coffee shop sometimes, but for the most part I try to prep coffee at home.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:51 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
quote:
We have 3 bedroom apartments at $1800/month.
who is "we"?
eta: i have to admit i think high rent is a bit exaggerated by some people. I have 2/2 (to myself) in a somewhat desirable 'hood for $1400/month. it's kind of old and shitty though but i love the location and size.
We would be the collective state of Georgia.
Or the greater Atlanta area.
My son goes to Kennesaw St. Those prices reflect non-student housing in that area.
Ironically, they also reflect the current apartment runs in my hick 1 high school county about 60 miles north of Atlanta.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:51 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
They all want us living in apartments
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:53 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Nevermind the crippling student loan debt, which is higher than the mortgages of decades past,
Young people, en masse, starting to reject these national universities and their ridiculous costs for community colleges and trade schools, would be one of the best things that could happen for this country...for multiple reasons.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:54 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
the younger generation
I'm 35. I broke down the math in a subsequent post if you want to read. It's not the Starbucks once or twice a week
I don't understand why some people refuse to sit down and look at the hard numbers. Warning - incoming rant about childcare.
Childcare is going to cost me $3,500/month for two kids come January. I can afford it and our kids will go full-time, but I am also not that spaced out of it that I can't see that that is completely unaffordable for a lot of people.
Well then a parent should stay home right? Except that is a long-term detriment to people's careers and earnings - primarily for women. IDK, I just feel like things have changed significantly the past 3-5 years and it is hard for people to wrap their head around just how expensive life has become.
ALSO - $3,500 is literally the most afforable option for us for well-reviewed LICENSED facilities which is a choice we are making, but I have seen prices around $3k for two kids at in-home daycares (so not significantly better).
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:54 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
The fact that this got downvoted tells me all I need to know about the mindset of the younger generation
I’m the same age as the guy who posted, and while I didn’t down vote it, I understand why someone would. Again, while the advice he’s giving is fine, he’s (and you’re apparently) missing the point about the current economic environment.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:56 pm to meansonny
quote:
meansonny
Cars.
Clothes.
Vacations.
Dining.
Entertainment.
I'm in my early 30's and college educated. Average income. I track every single dollar I make and spend in a spreadsheet. I'm very financially literate. The only reason I was able to save money this year was because the little that I had in the stock market is up 130% YTD and up 301% all-time (first invested in 2018). Otherwise I'm about even for the year not including investments.
In the last year,
- I've paid $0 on car notes (still driving 12 y/o Toyota)
- haven't 0 new clothes
- taken 1 vacation out-of-state for a bachelor party
- gone out to dinner maybe once every couple months
- spend minimal on entertainment while also living a life (no cable bill, 1 streaming service)
The overwhelming majority of my post-tax income went to housing, utilities, gas, student loan payments, and groceries. The only reason I spent any more money this year as I did last year and the year before is because the price of groceries and other goods went up drastically.
I suppose I could've saved a few thousand had I not bought an engagement ring and used a piece of twine instead, so yeah.
I don't mean to be abrasive as you should be proud of what you've accomplished, but it's not as simple as just being disciplined anymore for the average American. The math just doesn't add up to be able to save any significant amounts of money every year on your average salary if you don't live in a tent.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:57 pm to dewster
quote:
quote:
I drink about 2 pots a day
Do you see a cardiologist?
Not yet.
We do mix the coffee half regular and half decaf.
My wife needs it that way or she acts like a honey badger on cocaine.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:59 pm to meansonny
Dude, I am not arguing your point that living below your means is a good thing. I am just trying to show you that even cutting some of these excess items, the cost of living is grossly outpacing the savings.
You want to talk about learning to live poor? My first car was $800 and had a messed up transmission that meant I couldn't go in reverse
However, I am not oblivious to the fact that I also just happened to make some good choices that ended up working out - and also, I got lucky with timing such as buying my first home in 2018.
You want to talk about learning to live poor? My first car was $800 and had a messed up transmission that meant I couldn't go in reverse
However, I am not oblivious to the fact that I also just happened to make some good choices that ended up working out - and also, I got lucky with timing such as buying my first home in 2018.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 3:59 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
Young people, en masse, starting to reject these national universities and their ridiculous costs for community colleges and trade schools, would be one of the best things that could happen for this country...for multiple reasons.
Oh boy. Yes. We should just all be plumbers and electricians.
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:01 pm to 904
quote:
The fact that you think people can save for a $40k down payment by not spending $14/mo on Netflix or $5 on a coffee, or by just not using Amazon tells me all I need to know.
Now you're being intentionally obtuse, and Im not just talking about lowballing the price for those two things, I'm talking about being dismissive of the other things that people spend on that they don't have to: gym memberships, hair/nails (for the ladies), cabs/ubers, food and drink, cars, new phones, nicer apartments than they can afford or need, clothes. The list could go on.
I sacrificed on ALL of those things in my 20s so I could live within my means and save enough to ultimately buy a place, Somehow I was able to do that starting out making about $28k per year in the 2000s. So forgive me if I don't sympathize with the "plight" of people who indulge in all of those things and have the balls to complain that they can't afford a home in their ideal location.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:02 pm to 904
Do you live in California or something? I live in God’s country and I have more house than I need tbh
I’m your age but I’m not a true millenial. I feel like y’all burn up yalls whole Sunday getting drunk and spending 100 on brunch when you could be fixing up an old house like I did
I’m your age but I’m not a true millenial. I feel like y’all burn up yalls whole Sunday getting drunk and spending 100 on brunch when you could be fixing up an old house like I did
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:03 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Oh boy. Yes. We should just all be plumbers and electricians.
It’s such a false dichotomy
People dumb enough to go to college aren’t smart enough to work in the trades
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:05 pm to alexahet
quote:
However, I am not oblivious to the fact that I also just happened to make some good choices that ended up working out - and also, I got lucky with timing such as buying my first home in 2018.
Sometimes buying a house is all about luck anyways. My parents rented a good part of the 70s due to interest rates being so high, at the time, felt they couldn't afford it. I bought a house in early 09 b/c housing market had crashed. If I wanted to move right now, I probably wouldn't, just bad timing. Just not long ago was great timing with low interest rates. Last 2 years has been rough for someone in the hunt though, no doubt. In the grand scheme of things though, last 10 years, there's been plenty of oppurtunities for young people to buy.
Fwiw, last couple years I've known old people to back out of moving or buying a house. That's just the shite luck of the economy, interest rates, and crazy market.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 12/20/23 at 4:06 pm to alexahet
quote:
Well then a parent should stay home right? Except that is a long-term detriment to people's careers and earnings - primarily for women. IDK, I just feel like things have changed significantly the past 3-5 years and it is hard for people to wrap their head around just how expensive life has become.
50% of women’s “careers” are like posting on fb for a car dealership or changing out the diversity posters in the halls
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