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Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:04 pm to RollTide1987
I struggle with religion. I was raised Catholic but am leaning more toward just the Bible. How much of the Bible have men corrupted? We corrupt everything we touch. We can’t help ourselves.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:11 pm to kciDAtaE
quote:
Imagine if they would have decided something different. Billions of people faith would be altered
The Council of Nicaea is definitely an important milestone in the history of the world, but history is never black and white. Arian beliefs did not die with the Council. If anything, they grew stronger. Constantine was baptized on his deathbed an Arian Christian and the entire world at one point was Arian. It was the work of a handful of men, chief among them Athanasius of Alexandria, who kept Nicene Christianity alive long enough for it to be rubber stamped a second time at the First Council of Constantinople in AD 381. Even to this day Arianism persists in several Christian sects, most notable among them would be Jehovah's Witnesses.
This post was edited on 6/15/25 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:17 pm to RollTide1987
Bishop Nicholas of Myra was one of the ~318 bishops in attendance
Also known to us as… Santa Claus
Also known to us as… Santa Claus
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:18 pm to RollTide1987
Correct. And a great point. It leads to another conversation. Did Constantine convert to Christianity for religious or political beliefs.
Some say it doesn’t matter bc it happened. But what if it didn’t happen?…due to politics.
How would the world be changed? No one can say.
Some say it doesn’t matter bc it happened. But what if it didn’t happen?…due to politics.
How would the world be changed? No one can say.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:23 pm to kciDAtaE
You're right it is fascinating. Christian history is full of events like this. Arianism was popular among many barbarian tribes that swept into the Western Empire at the end of the 4th and through the 5th century.
The Vandals, who seized North Africa were Arian (sieged Hippo while St. Augustine was dying) and was used by Justinian as a justification for reconquest in the mid 6th century.
The Goths/Visigoths were too though they embraced catholicism after settling in Italy and Spain respectively.
The Franks were early converts to catholicism, hence the moniker for France for over a millenia as the "Eldest daughter of the church".
Crazy too is that much of central Asia, "the stans" countries, and into China/Mongolia were populated with Christians. The Church of the East, sometimes called Nestorians, who fled to Persia in the mid 5th century.
It was the largest geographical (though smaller numbers than Coptic, Orthodox, and Catholic) church group for a long time but declined with the Mongol Invasions and periods of Islamic persecution.
Kublai Khan's mother was a Nestorian Christian.
History is fascinating and hinges on some odd things.
The Vandals, who seized North Africa were Arian (sieged Hippo while St. Augustine was dying) and was used by Justinian as a justification for reconquest in the mid 6th century.
The Goths/Visigoths were too though they embraced catholicism after settling in Italy and Spain respectively.
The Franks were early converts to catholicism, hence the moniker for France for over a millenia as the "Eldest daughter of the church".
Crazy too is that much of central Asia, "the stans" countries, and into China/Mongolia were populated with Christians. The Church of the East, sometimes called Nestorians, who fled to Persia in the mid 5th century.
It was the largest geographical (though smaller numbers than Coptic, Orthodox, and Catholic) church group for a long time but declined with the Mongol Invasions and periods of Islamic persecution.
Kublai Khan's mother was a Nestorian Christian.
History is fascinating and hinges on some odd things.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:29 pm to OldyMoldy
AI is getting better. Still doesn’t replace common thought.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:32 pm to RollTide1987
A handful of social elites decided who you must bribe to get into heaven for 2000 years.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:41 pm to jamiegla1
quote:
I struggle with religion. I was raised Catholic but am leaning more toward just the Bible. How much of the Bible have men corrupted? We corrupt everything we touch. We can’t help ourselves.
The cool thing is, even though humans mess up a lot, the Bible itself has held up really well over time. There are so many ancient manuscripts that it would’ve been nearly impossible for anyone to successfully corrupt the core message. Even the parts people debate, like the last few verses of Mark or the genealogies in Genesis, don’t affect any core Christian beliefs.
Religion, though, has definitely been shaped, and sometimes distorted, by people over time. That’s pretty hard to avoid. Catholics and Orthodox Christians often refer to the “Bible-only” approach as Sola Scriptura, but that doesn’t mean tradition is completely dismissed. Most who hold this view still respect early Christian writings, acknowledge the role tradition played in recognizing the canon, and affirm core beliefs like the Trinity. The key difference is that they don’t see any outside writings as authoritative when it comes to interpreting the Bible, which is part of why you end up with so many different denominations and perspectives.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 9:48 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
handful of social elites decided who you must bribe to get into heaven for 2000 years.
See this is super interesting to me as well. Criticizing people’s faith without offering a differing opinion.
I wonder if it is a lack of belief?
Insecurity?
Maybe they know something?
???
Posted on 6/15/25 at 10:28 pm to kciDAtaE
Common thought, like common sense, is not so common. Especially not with you people.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 7:09 am to Stexas
quote:quote:It was left over practice from the Eunuchs who did so in order to serve the ladies without fear of inappropriate behavior.
Self castration?
Thats not true.
In the Gospels, Jesus describes men who make themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. For whoever was writing the Gospels, and for Paul as we can see in his epistles, heaven and earth were about to be destroyed and remade ushering in the kingdom of God. This was going to happen very soon, in the lifetime of the people alive during Paul’s life. Paul even believed Jesus would come to judge the living and the dead and destroy heaven and earth and remake it… before Paul himself would die. All this was going to happen very soon “very soon” and Jesus was going to come like a thief in the night.
So they all had to be prepared for this event at all times. They wrote about there not being a need to get married and have children anymore. It was best to be celibate, like Paul, to be spiritually and ritually pure. Many people took that literally and the gospel verse of Jesus talking of making oneself a eunuch literally so they cut off their own nuts.
It’s pretty tough to grow the church both population and revenue and geographic area when your constituents aren’t having children. They had to stop it.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 7:14 am to RollTide1987
Part of the contrived justification of a hierarchy to suppress people, which is inherent to all religions. Impactful, but certainly not in a good way.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 7:17 am to kciDAtaE
quote:
Events like this fascinate me. I don’t think most people fully understand the significance. What was decided at that council shaped the Christian faith for thousands of years. What people believe and fought over for centuries was due to what a bunch of men decided 1,700 years.
Interesting that people made it up innit
Posted on 6/16/25 at 7:21 am to ned nederlander
quote:
I’m not a religious man but I think if I was around then and asked I would have been team Arius.
Well of course. Based on the scriptures the church considers canon today, Jesus was a created being - the firstborn of creation. He was separate from God the father, made himself low, was sacrificed, and his father resurrected him. (It’s silly to think one could sacrifice oneself to oneself to pay oneself a ransom that oneself demanded of oneself). And in the gospels Jesus says the father is greater than him, and he prays to his father.
There was nothing in scripture that said Jesus was equal to God the father, but plenty of scripture that Jesus was Yahweh that had become flesh (incarnate). They were two separate divine beings, as preserved in Deuteronomy 32:8-9. One of the early church fathers and Pope Clement of Rome in his epistle referred to this two deity concept and quoted Deuteronomy 32 in his epistle to the Corinthians. Paul wrote that for us we have one god, the father, and we have one Lord, his son. You’ll notice that no where in the scriptures is Jesus ever the son of the Lord, rather he IS Lord, the son of God. Early Christians definitely distinguished the Lord and the God until the councils of Nicaea and the council of Constantinople decades later when they invented the framework of the Holy Trinity and included Jesus’ mother the Holy Spirit.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 7:57 am to LSUBFA83
quote:
Besides the Nicene and Apostles Creeds we also have the Athanasian Creed which we had to recite during our worship service today, since it was Trinity Sunday. *collective internal groan from the pews*
Don't forget this Creed....
Posted on 6/16/25 at 8:02 am to kciDAtaE
quote:
doubt many if any people will be taking about Katrina in 300 years.
It will likely be described as a great flood displacing a whole population of people, foretelling an injured savior (Drew Brees) coming to resurrect (the team), in the form of a trinity (himself, Payton, and Reggie Bush) to bring us to the promised land (Super Bowl).
Posted on 6/16/25 at 8:11 am to Harald Ekernson
quote:
Based on the scriptures the church considers canon today, Jesus was a created being - the firstborn of creation.
You might want to read the first chapter of the Gospel of John.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 8:13 am to jamiegla1
quote:
I struggle with religion. I was raised Catholic but am leaning more toward just the Bible. How much of the Bible have men corrupted? We corrupt everything we touch. We can’t help ourselves.
Probably not as badly as you think. Read the Church Fathers like Ignatius and Irenaeus and Polycarp. They quote scripture liberally and are all just about as close to the apostles as you can get (born late first and early second centruy). If you were raised Catholic, you'll recognize their teachings on things like baptism and the eucharist and Church's authority. Irenaueus's "Against Heresies" talks about apostolic succession and the primacy of Rome and all. Check it out.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 8:17 am to ColdDuck
quote:
And it was 300 years after the birth of Christ
What’s really interesting about that is that Paul, Jude, and the author of the epistle to the Hebrews has Jesus as an incarnate version of Yahweh who was created by God before the creation of the heavens and earth. The gospel of John also has Jesus “the Word” becoming flesh and walking among us. These guys did not believe Jesus was ever born as a human baby. It’s only the authors of Matthew and Luke that have the two different contradicting stories of Jesus being born as a baby human. Mark, written as the first gospel after Paul’s epistles, didn’t feel the need to explain where Jesus came from - the story begins as an adult Jesus walking around.
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