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re: Tesla Model 3 output less than 1/5th of Q3 goal
Posted on 10/3/17 at 7:26 pm to bmy
Posted on 10/3/17 at 7:26 pm to bmy
quote:
Not hard to imagine gas stations in rural locations installing 1-2 charging stations and getting paid for it. Or massive parking lots with dozens of charging stations.
In Louisiana it is hard to imagine a paved road and a public rest stop with a flushing toilet.
Although in the future the state of Louisiana will provide the infrastructure for electric charging stations?
If this industry can survive and make it on its own, I am all for it. But, I don't want to be one of the dupes that pays for something through taxes or subsidies on something that will likely fail. Tesla has sucked the government tit dry. Tesla and Musk need to be weened from my wallet and the government's.
0
Posted on 10/3/17 at 7:33 pm to 9WhoDat37
quote:
Seems consistent. What am I missing?
Maybe you're missing the title of the article I linked.....
quote:
Tesla is going to blow through billions to launch the Model 3
Posted on 10/3/17 at 8:44 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:Why?
complete BS and he is getting by on taxpayers dime.
You do realize any car company could have taken advantage of the same subsidies right?
People act like it was just some special money that the gov't randomly chose to give him and no one else.
Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:05 pm to member12
Tesla is a fricking sham
Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:24 pm to dkreller
quote:
Even if Musk figures how how to match the power output of a diesel semi, there is absolutely no way it will be able to match a diesel's range when towing a heavy load.
First, don't limit it to Musk, others are looking at the issue as well. Range becomes a non-issue when you figure the autonomous truck runs 24 hours a day. As long as it can stop and recharge and put more miles a day in that a human driver can (since they are required to rest) and do it more efficiently the electric still wins.
quote:
The battery pack and motor will outweigh a diesel and take up more space, reducing the amount and size of a shipment.
The is a LOT of space in a current OTR tractor dedicated to the human currently. Fill the sleeper, cabin and engine compartment with batteries or fuel cells and you have a LOT of juice. Weight can be an issue but the weight limits can be addressed as the major factor is braking distance which can be lowered by autonomous vehicles since even without reducing the braking system reaction time can be much lower. Also many load cube out instead of weight out. Further, when you cut the driver out it may end up being more efficient to use more smaller trucks with loads directed closer to or directly to the end destination and cut out many of the large transfer terminals. This whole area has the makings of a much more efficient distribution system.
quote:
The only way an electric semi can compete with a diesel is if it's towing an empty trailer.
Just a few short years ago people bemoaned the horrible performance of electric cars, now Teslas are stomping super cars in 1/4 mile drag races. An all electric car holds the N'ring lap record at 7.45.9.
Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:37 pm to Obtuse1
quote:And the end game is continuous wireless charging like the new iPhones. It’s coming.
As long as it can stop and recharge and put more miles a day in that a human driver can (since they are required to rest) and do it more efficiently the electric still wins
Posted on 10/3/17 at 11:10 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
First, don't limit it to Musk, others are looking at the issue as well. Range becomes a non-issue when you figure the autonomous truck runs 24 hours a day. As long as it can stop and recharge and put more miles a day in that a human driver can (since they are required to rest) and do it more efficiently the electric still wins.
How long is it going to take these super batteries to charge?
BTW I wasn’t talking about autonomous. Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves.
Oh wait that’s right we’re talking about Musk. The king of failed expectations.
quote:
The is a LOT of space in a current OTR tractor dedicated to the human currently. Fill the sleeper, cabin and engine compartment with batteries or fuel cells and you have a LOT of juice. Weight can be an issue but the weight limits can be addressed as the major factor is braking distance which can be lowered by autonomous vehicles since even without reducing the braking system reaction time can be much lower. Also many load cube out instead of weight out. Further, when you cut the driver out it may end up being more efficient to use more smaller trucks with loads directed closer to or directly to the end destination and cut out many of the large transfer terminals. This whole area has the makings of a much more efficient distribution system.
Wow you’re doubling down
quote:
Just a few short years ago people bemoaned the horrible performance of electric cars, now Teslas are stomping super cars in 1/4 mile drag races. An all electric car holds the N'ring lap record at 7.45.9.
Now you’ve gone full retard.
Nobody doubts an electric motors acceleration. What does this have to do with the topic at hand?
Posted on 10/3/17 at 11:34 pm to dkreller
quote:
How long is it going to take these super batteries to charge?
BTW I wasn’t talking about autonomous. Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves.
It is clear you aren't very current on the evolution of this area of technology but I assumed you grasp the fact that feasibility is based on autonomous electric trucking. Autonomy is quickly catching up with the evolution of EVs and in trucking it will likely be ready for prime time ahead of tractors that can handle the role of OTR trucking. You have to consider them as a package regarding cost per ton/mile. By DOT regulations (and human physiology) is not allowed to drive 24hrs a day so as long as autonomous electrics can run more hours a day it can be quicker which may make SOME uses economically feasible even if the cost is slightly higher per ton/mile. When the ton/mile cost drops below standard OTR costs then human driven diesels will become extinct. There is actually a lot of charging time available to still be quicker than a human driver.
I doubled down on an accurate scenario.
quote:
Now you’ve gone full retard.
Nobody doubts an electric motors acceleration. What does this have to do with the topic at hand?
Seriously, are you so daft you couldn't understand that point. If you did it just for the ability to go ad hominem OK but it is a pretty simple and germane point.
Sure nobody that's remotely tuned in now doubts EV's acceleration potential BUT that was not my point. My point was it was only relatively recently when most car nerds couldn't fathom cars like the NextEV Nio EP9 (pictured in my post above). The world, in general, could not fathom the leaps EVs have made, the leaps in range and heavy-duty vehicles are coming whether you choose to believe it or not.
Posted on 10/4/17 at 8:25 am to Obtuse1
quote:Yea, it's understandable to be skeptical and certainly you can question Elon's timelines(obviously) but why would anyone act like some of these things are just impossible and never going to happen, like the long distance EV truck. Even if Tesla botches it, someone at some point is going to make that a reality. I don't know why that poster or anyone would think it's something that just can't be done.
The world, in general, could not fathom the leaps EVs have made, the leaps in range and heavy-duty vehicles are coming whether you choose to believe it or not.
Posted on 10/4/17 at 9:24 am to cajuncarguy
quote:
Tesla's production system is a nightmare. They are in the same facility that GM and Toyota had a JV that ended a few years ago. But instead of using modern production methods with automated robots etc they are building these manually with virtually no assembly line. But not with skilled workers but cheap imported labor with work visas from Obama that our taxes are paying for. They have so many more workers that they ran out of room in their parking lot yet only producing a fraction of what GM/Toyota did in the same facility.
This guy doesn't really know what he's talking about.
The Tesla plant in Fremont was a GM plant back in the 60s, and later was a joint venture (NUMMI) with Chevy and Toyota. They made Geos there along with Corollas, etc.
Their workers are just about all Americans, mostly Bay area residents.
They use an assembly line, just like everyone else.
The issues with the parking are legit, but it was made much worse by the construction that went on in the plant this summer.
That said, Tesla is a clusterfrick. Complete and utter. That expansion was so FUBAR. No plans, no material. The men on the job said it seemed like Tesla was actually trying to sabotage things.
Posted on 10/4/17 at 9:26 am to Sayre
quote:
The Tesla plant in Fremont was a GM plant back in the 60s, and later was a joint venture (NUMMI) with Chevy and Toyota. They made Geos there along with Corollas, etc.
The GM/Toyota NUMMI was the most efficient plant for both of those automakers. Did Tesla scrap the whole thing and start over?
Posted on 10/4/17 at 9:27 am to cajuncarguy
quote:
There was a good article in Automotive news a while back that detailed how backwards they are. many good production people were hired from other OEMs and quit because it was more of an foreign worker jobs program than a serious effort to produce cars.
Also their quality sucks. The general public doesn't know this because they will not allow JD Power to access their owner/customer lists. ALL other OEMs that sell vehicles in the USA have given their customer information for JD Power to survey EXCEPT TESLA.
Fellas, if this cat is telling you something, you better have one big grain of salt. He really doesn't have a clue.
Posted on 10/4/17 at 9:29 am to dewster
quote:
The GM/Toyota NUMMI was the most efficient plant for both of those automakers. Did Tesla scrap the whole thing and start over?
GM and Toyota moved most of what they could to other facilities. Toyota sold a little stuff to Tesla, but for the most part Tesla made the facility their own.
Posted on 10/4/17 at 9:31 am to member12
quote:
LINK
Is Tesla using non-disclosure agreements to cover up safety defects in its vehicles? That's one interpretation of the "Goodwill Agreement" an owner was asked to sign in exchange for the company partially covering the cost of the repair of a broken suspension, according to an article in The Daily Kanban, which investigated this issue.
This is pretty shady. I expect an upstart to have some quality issues though. This is where they are at a tremendous disadvantage to established automakers in that respect as well as the availability of service centers. Virtually every large city has one or more places to get a Mercedes S550 repaired. That isn't yet the case with Tesla. Even in small towns, Chevrolet service centers are as prevalent as John Deere dealerships.
Anecdotally, one of my coworkers has a Model S and it has been towed away a few times for repairs. I would not buy one at all unless you lived in an area where you can depend on ride share while it is getting repaired. It's still a cool car, but I would never actually buy one.
No one is buying a Tesla because they expect it to be more reliable than a Toyota, Chevrolet, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, Cadillac, or Volvo (or any other automaker with EVs). Tesla is only going to have more difficulty as the bigger players expand their EV offerings.
Volvo and General Motors have both announced plans for an entirely EV lineup within the next 10 years.
This post was edited on 10/4/17 at 9:40 am
Posted on 10/4/17 at 9:57 am to shel311
They've been around for 14 years now and have yet to earn money selling cars. If Tesla's products aren't expected to be the first to market, what exactly is their game from here on out? They are clearly marketed to early adopters.
If Tesla is so innovative, nimble, and efficient....then how did an old Detroit company like Chevrolet beat them to the affordable long range EV market? At this point, Nissan's new long range Leaf will be available before production of the model 3 meets targets.
It's not like these are difficult questions or unreasonable concerns. I have no reason to think that Tesla isn't grossly overvalued as a company.
If Tesla is so innovative, nimble, and efficient....then how did an old Detroit company like Chevrolet beat them to the affordable long range EV market? At this point, Nissan's new long range Leaf will be available before production of the model 3 meets targets.
It's not like these are difficult questions or unreasonable concerns. I have no reason to think that Tesla isn't grossly overvalued as a company.
Posted on 10/4/17 at 9:58 am to GREENHEAD22
quote:
getting by on taxpayers dime
Yeah and while we're at it, to hell with giving subsidies to farmers and energy producers. Say no to airline and automobile bailouts! Stop the grants that fund technological upstarts or biomedical research!
Posted on 10/4/17 at 10:35 am to LSURussian
quote:
Maybe you're missing the title of the article I linked.....
I guess that is where you stopped reading both of them
quote:
Tesla is going to blow through billions to launch the Model 3
No shite? That's shocking news!
Posted on 10/4/17 at 11:16 am to 9WhoDat37
Okay, thanks.
Posted on 10/4/17 at 11:18 am to member12
Yeah, who didn't know this would happen? 
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