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Started By
Message
re: Tesla is going over the cliff. All the key employees are bailing and the sales
Posted on 2/25/19 at 9:58 pm to jimdog
Posted on 2/25/19 at 9:58 pm to jimdog
quote:
You would be correct about the lack of Tesla's on my street. Popular transportation among the males are King Ranch and GMC Denali pickups for everyday. Two own Cessna Citations for business and out of town personal. Couple of new money guys from India, one drives a Porsche and the other some kind of BMW. And among the wives it's all about the SUV of course from Lexus to Suburban. Among the kids Jeeps are popular with the girls of high school age then they switch to smaller Benz or Acura SUV when they leave for college. The boys tend to copy dad and drive used Ford, Chevy, Toyota and Ram pickups.
Course we are kinda "traditional" out here on the edge of town among these lakes and on the banks of the river. Most of the kids go to boring private schools, all of the young moms stay at home and play tennis with the older ones at the Club. Men golf or fish and hunt some. Huge football fans on both sides of the street with a sprinkling of Tech fans along with a Vandy guy and the rest scattered among Bama, UGA and AU. Boring I guess if you are used to living next door to drug dealers and other "interesting" folks but we like it even though some would say we suffer from a lack of diversity. Although we do have a wonderful black couple, both attorneys and their son and the two Indian small business owners I mentioned. But the male black attorney drives a....you got it, King Ranch. So there you go.
I can't believe how gay this thread is. I could care less about Elon Musk or the financial health of any company he is apart of. What I do like, is the fact that before Tesla, the thought of an affordable electric car that could travel over 100 miles without requiring charging was completely laughable and now it is common. Before SpaceX or whateverthefrick the space company is called the thought of going to the moon, sending anything to outerspace, basically anything with regards to off planet commerce, was a pipedream and now it is happening. Don't care about the dude, but by my scorecard...
0
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:10 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Almost invariably, the Tesla "haters" are conservative. There is a strong aversion among conservatives to anything that has to do with reducing our reliance on fossil fuels. That and/or they hate Tesla for taking advantage of subsidies that are available to the entire industry.
This is troubling because we have self-proclaimed America-loving people actively rooting for the failure of an American company that provides many high-paying jobs.
You are so incredibly wrong on this. The only link between the realism that you confuse for hate and conservatives is that they recognize a loser.
No one hates on Karma/Fiskar, no one on Rivian.
God forbid you point out a loser without being condemned as hating the environment.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:15 pm to Triple Bogey
quote:The fundamentals matter, and investors do care about them. It's *you* who are interpreting the fundamentals incorrectly. Tesla is a company in startup growth mode, not a 100 year old dividend stock.
I bought some put options on TSLA before their last earnings announcement and got frickin rekt. Horrible earnings and they were up 10%. Makes no sense, but it’s a hype stock and the investors don’t care about the fundamentals. Needless to say, I paid a lot for that lesson.
Musk's major flaw, if you can call it that, is being too ambitious. He has absolutely enormous life goals, and I wouldn't bet against him achieving most of them. Tesla could easily pull back on the R&D and capex, and settle into being a niche but profitable car and alt energy tech manufacturer. But the day they do that is the day the stock plummets. What kind of idiot would stop investing when there is so much potential? I know what kind of idiot. The kind who thought Amazon should have slowed the investment and started turning profits a decade ago. A lot of people paid a lot for that same lesson.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:18 pm to Korkstand
So if Musk gets booted what happens to TSLA?
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:28 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
The lack of government subsidies are what will make the company fail.
Meanwhile, the Chinese government and companies are going all in on EVs. EVs are the future of transportation and if the Conservatives keep pushing back because it is "green" we will piss away our competitive advantage and be on the back foot in one of the largest manufacturing sectors and economic engines on earth. If we languish for 5-7 more years the best hope we will have is technology transfer from China to the US. Outside of allowing computer manufacturing to go to the Pacific Rim not taking advantage of the EV tsunami will be the poorest economic decisions the US has made in the last 150 years if we fail.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:29 pm to fightin tigers
quote:Find me a Tesla hater who isn't considerably right of center.
You are so incredibly wrong on this.
quote:Out of Karma/Fisker, Rivian, and Tesla, only one has produced enough vehicles to be recognized by the general population. One has high hopes of selling 5 cars per week, one has yet to sell a single car, and one is moving thousands per week. And which one are you calling the "loser"?
The only link between the realism that you confuse for hate and conservatives is that they recognize a loser.
No one hates on Karma/Fiskar, no one on Rivian.
quote:I didn't say you or other Tesla haters hate the environment. I said there is a strong aversion among conservatives to reducing reliance on fossil fuels. I'm less concerned about the environmental impact and more concerned about the national security implications of relying on oil.
God forbid you point out a loser without being condemned as hating the environment.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:31 pm to Obtuse1
The manufacturers that will fuel China will not fuel the US.
Again, you are saying TSLA is meeting resistance because of their stance on EVs. That is not the case.
Again, you are saying TSLA is meeting resistance because of their stance on EVs. That is not the case.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:33 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Find me a Tesla hater who isn't considerably right of center.
Hater = critic in your book.
quote:
Out of Karma/Fisker, Rivian, and Tesla, only one has produced enough vehicles to be recognized by the general population. One has high hopes of selling 5 cars per week, one has yet to sell a single car, and one is moving thousands per week. And which one are you calling the "loser"?
I can sell 1000 beans at a $1 loss or not sell any beans at all.
quote:
. I'm less concerned about the environmental impact and more concerned about the national security implications of relying on oil
TSLA isn't solving the oil/hydrocarbon reliance nor are electric cars.
This post was edited on 2/25/19 at 10:35 pm
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:36 pm to fightin tigers
quote:My guess is the stock would drop 50+%, and someone would come in and bow to the pressure to turn a profit ASAP. Tesla would immediately turn into another BMW/Porsche, and American energy/transportation technological advancement would slow considerably.
So if Musk gets booted what happens to TSLA?
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:37 pm to Korkstand
quote:
My guess is the stock would drop 50+%, and someone would come in and bow to the pressure to turn a profit ASAP. Tesla would immediately turn into another BMW/Porsche, and American energy/transportation technological advancement would slow considerably.
The pressure to turn a profit is going to come from the people he owes money to. It isn't free money.
Cheap energy is going to guide the market. Poor people want cheap.
This post was edited on 2/25/19 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:47 pm to fightin tigers
quote:OK
Hater = critic in your book.
quote:The margins on their vehicles are positive, and strongly positive at that. The losses are due to R&D and capex.
I can sell 1000 beans at a $1 loss or not sell any beans at all.
If everyone thought like you and chose to not sell any beans at all, then you and I wouldn't be here talking to each other on the magic electric machines. It takes a lot of money, and a lot of losses, to develop technology and eventually make a lot of money on it.
quote:Alone? No. But you're blind if you don't see the effect Tesla has had on the industry. And you're a fool if you don't think electric vehicles are the first, and most important, step toward reducing our reliance on oil.
TSLA isn't solving the oil/hydrocarbon reliance nor are electric cars.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:47 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
The manufacturers that will fuel China will not fuel the US.
That is what US automakers said about the Japanese auto manufacturers in the late 60s and early 70s, particularly if we lose our competitive edge we will relive that same history with Chinese cars. Plus, the US isn't just potentially ceding the US market it is also the global market.
quote:
Again, you are saying TSLA is meeting resistance because of their stance on EVs. That is not the case.
Tesla is meeting the most resistance because it is in a "green" sector. To think it is not an R vs D issue more than anything is simply idiotic. One can argue the numbers as to whether Tesla itself is likely to be long term viable but the choices to end credits and not push EV manufacturing doesn't just impact Tesla's long term survival but the long term market share of the Big 3 as well. If the plan is to stoke the fires of China's manufacturing engine then it is working well, if "we" want to keep and expand US auto manufacturing we are doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:52 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
I can sell 1000 beans at a $1 loss or not sell any beans at all.
You could. But then you would've PRODUCED 1000 beans for society instead you would choose to just sit and be a CONSUMER of air just like all the dolers you bitch about everyday.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:56 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Meanwhile, the Chinese government and companies are going all in on EVs. EVs are the future of transportation and if the Conservatives keep pushing back because it is "green" we will piss away our competitive advantage and be on the back foot in one of the largest manufacturing sectors and economic engines on earth
The Chinese are building coal fueled power plants right and left to power up those EVs. BTW, I like Teslas and think that Musk is a genius. He just isn't up to running a public company and he is leading it to ruin. Someone else may end up with his technology and make something of it.
This post was edited on 2/25/19 at 10:58 pm
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:57 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Alone? No. But you're blind if you don't see the effect Tesla has had on the industry. And you're a fool if you don't think electric vehicles are the first, and most important, step toward reducing our reliance on oil
The value TSLA has added isn't worth that hill of 1000 beans.
They can't cash it in.
That is the entire point. He gave away the technology for free and the companies that are fueling China are winning.
He will no doubt continue to try and innovate, but investors will lose patience. They are already pissed about the patents, or lack thereof.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 10:59 pm to sabanisarustedspoke
quote:
You could. But then you would've PRODUCED 1000 beans for society instead you would choose to just sit and be a CONSUMER of air just like all the dolers you bitch about everyday.
You are trying to profit off of good will. Meanwhile I have my 1000 beans that haven't sold and will profit off of your hunger.
It isn't a pretty and fair world.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 11:03 pm to fightin tigers
quote:I know where the pressure comes from, but what difference does that make regarding what I said?
The pressure to turn a profit is going to come from the people he owes money to. It isn't free money.
quote:No doubt, but do you have any idea how much it costs, how much investment is required, to make something cheap? Do you think the o&g infrastructure was cheap? Billion dollar pipelines, billion dollar ships, billion dollar plants, etc. It costs many fortunes to make "cheap". Someone has to have the foresight and the money to create "cheap".
Cheap energy is going to guide the market. Poor people want cheap.
So if you want to talk about cheap energy, it doesn't get any cheaper than ZERO. There are multiple ways to produce energy with input fuel costs of zero dollars. Solar, wind, hydro... Once built, they produce energy for "free", minus maintenance costs. The input costs for producing energy by burning shite will never be zero. You have to constantly feed dollars into it. The long-term outlook favors renewables enormously. It's just a matter of investing the money to make it pay off. To make it truly "cheap".
And step 1 of that process is getting a considerable fraction of our vehicles switched to EVs. So whether you think Tesla can turn a profit or not (hint: it can and will), we really can't afford to let China beat us to cheap energy.
So rather than "hate", criticize, root for failure, or otherwise have some sort of disdain for Tesla, why don't YOU do something constructive for our future?
Posted on 2/25/19 at 11:07 pm to Korkstand
quote:
So rather than "hate", criticize, root for failure, or otherwise have some sort of disdain for Tesla, why don't YOU do something constructive for our future?
Right...don't be critical of TSLA. Doing so means I am against the future.
Just feed a billionaire more money to fall short on results and fuel his own pocketbooks.
Forget he sold Solar City to TSLA for an absurdly overinflated value.
Again. God forbid you be critical of TSLA because you will be accused of being against the environment.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 11:08 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
The value TSLA has added isn't worth that hill of 1000 beans.
You are absolutely blind to reality.
quote:Tesla can cash it in at ANY time. But, again, it would be an absolutely moronic move to do so at this time.
They can't cash it in.
Posted on 2/25/19 at 11:13 pm to Korkstand
quote:
You are absolutely blind to reality
TSLA reminds me of bitcoin.
There is a market willing success despite so many signs of collapse. If they ever try to actually capitalize it will ruin the entire market.
This post was edited on 2/25/19 at 11:14 pm
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