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re: Suppose you discovered there is no afterlife
Posted on 9/12/25 at 4:57 pm to Jake88
Posted on 9/12/25 at 4:57 pm to Jake88
quote:
Who is behaving simply because they might not get to Heaven? That person is probably already acting immorally.
Ironically, Charlie Kirk had a pretty good take on this. He said if you're using Christianity as an insurance policy for the afterlife, then you've missed the point and there was no actual conversion.
1
Posted on 9/12/25 at 4:59 pm to Gings5
quote:The notion that nonbelief in an afterlife equals "living for yourself" is a false dichotomy. Besides the fact that there are several religions and schools of philosophy with no afterlife with deep moral codes and ethical teachings, I'll offer anecdotal evidence in the form of my own experience. I spend a ton of time analyzing my own foundation.
When you live life for yourself and not a higher power, there is no absolute truth or morality and the goal posts keep moving..
My ethical framework is rooted in minimizing needless harm, honoring autonomy, and practicing integrity without seeking moral purity. I view morality as emerging from our shared condition, not imposed from beyond it. Compassion matters, but so does realism. Life is negotiation, not absolutes. I accept trade-offs (for example, I don't consume factory-farmed meat but I'll buy leather boots that last ten years over "vegan" boots that are in a landfill in one) because perfection is neither possible nor honest. I consistently work to practice restraint: choosing not to inflict suffering when it isn’t required, and acting with integrity even when unseen.
Far from “moving goalposts,” my principles hold steady because they’re tied to lived reality, not a shifting afterlife bargain.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 4:59 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
When I discovered that it made me a better person.
Stopped making me believe I could just ask for forgiveness and be granted it by some magical ghost in the sky.
Makes you learn personal accountability.
I know you are getting DVed, and it is understandable, but this was absolutely my personal experience.
When I built my moral code, it made me the final arbiter, no clean slate, no absolution, breaking my code goes with me to death. There is no get out of jail free card. Situational morality dropped to almost zero because I can't "lawyer" around rules I set in place. I know my code and I know the "legislative intent" on which it was made.
I am also not saying you can't have both. My code was built around typical Judeo-Christian values because that is what I knew as the arbiter of right and wrong. My code is tighter in some respects and looser in others. But I am without question a better human, partly because my judgement is immediate and harsh and there is no option to sidestep my punishment.
To each their own, everyone needs their North Star, and people find it in different ways. If you walk the walk as a Christian, you will be a relatively good person and it is comforting for some to have an external set of rules and we all live with multiple sets in our life anyway. For me, absolution is too much of a cop out but it depends on how you view and "use" it.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:01 pm to Jake88
quote:
Who is behaving simply because they might not get to Heaven? That person is probably already acting immorally.
I can't speak to everyone's motives but I assume they are out there. It's probably not the best heart posture but I wouldn't say they are "acting immorally".
quote:
Not me. I have more than the afterlife to consider.
What? A family? A job? Staying out of jail for them? If there were no faith/belief in God who knows if we would even have laws to govern us to begin with. Why would we be any different from animals and not operate under the rules of survival of the fittest like the rest of nature if we're all just random evolutionary organisms?
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:01 pm to SidewalkTiger
Sounds like I missed out on him. I just avoid almost all social media.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:03 pm to RandySavage
quote:Because it makes life easier and most of us are cognitively advanced enough to appreciate that.
Why would we be any different from animals and not operate under the rules of survival of the fittest like the rest of nature if we're all just random evolutionary organisms?
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:03 pm to northshorebamaman
Well thought and and reasoned post but can you explain this part....
quote:
my principles hold steady because they’re tied to lived reality, not a shifting afterlife bargain.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:04 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
If we include the existence of God along with the notion of afterlife, what do you base your morality on?
There are 2 levels, societal trial and error and critically analyzing this.
Which is where religions develop their morality (and why there is such overlap, generally), and why these concepts coalesced in kind when we began society way back in Mesopotamia.
And we can have that discussion pre-supposing Christianity is correct, because I can cite countless other religions that rely on the same paradigm I used above that can exact peace, morality, typically with lots of overlap with Christianity. This is over countless societies, ethnicities, races, geographies, over thousands of years. If the Christian god is the only path to this morality, then non-Christian societies/religions could not devise such things.
ETA: And this occurred prior to Christianity existing and with societies that existed after Christianity who had no exposure to it for hundreds/thousands of years
This post was edited on 9/12/25 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:05 pm to dalefla
quote:
It's why the radical left try so hard to downplay Christianity and religion in general. Because deep down they know morality is loosely connected to religion and if God isn't real then fricking children must be okay
So you’re saying the only reason you don’t frick children is because of religion?
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:05 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:I cannot get over how much evil has befallen this world, using Christianity(or name any other religion) to justify it. I don’t, or at least haven’t yet, accepted the reasons people give for it happening.
Like what? Not going to try to convince you of everything but I like sharing honest thoughts with folks on subjects like this.
It’s mostly things I don’t really have the ability to convey to you. And ironically, it’s mostly faith that keeps me on the outside looking in. I sense something very wrong with religion. There’s no balance. There’s no accountability. It has done incomprehensible damage to the world. Whether that’s inherent with religion itself, idk. But even if it’s just humans bastardizing it, I want none of it.
I cannot locate a time when religion was at its highest, uh, output of good. When was it at its best? Idk.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:06 pm to RandySavage
quote:I'm referring to the multiple roadmaps to an afterlife as taught by a multitude of religions. It's not Christianity-specific if that's what you're asking about.
not a shifting afterlife bargain.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:06 pm to Jake88
quote:
Because it makes life easier and most of us are cognitively advanced enough to appreciate that.
Fair point. To counter though, of all of the millions of other species that were created, or evolved, we just happen to be the only ones to have magically developed this cognitive ability while the entirety of nature outside of humans has not?
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:07 pm to Jake88
I didn't see a ton of his stuff but had been watching a few videos in the last few months.
I don't agree with everything he says but he was definitely a positive influence on the world, IMO
Here's the video Facebook video
I don't agree with everything he says but he was definitely a positive influence on the world, IMO
Here's the video Facebook video
This post was edited on 9/12/25 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:10 pm to fightin tigers
quote:Huh. Damn. I am a former athiest, I had no idea that personal accountability was achievable if I would've just kept on being an athiest. That's weird because it was the exact opposite for me.
Makes you learn personal accountability.
quote:Huh. Damn. Who knew that the billions of educated and uneducated human beings, dead and alive, that think a magical "ghost man" in the sky is the only thing standing between them and being a better person like you? Wow. Who knew?
Stopped making me believe I could just ask for forgiveness and be granted it by some magical ghost in the sky.
quote:So let me get this straight: If I abandon Orthodox Christianity and go back to atheism, there's a chance that I, like you did, can not only learn personal accountability, but also I'll become a better person?
When I discovered that it made me a better person.
Folks, this is a righteous man in our midst. I'll reconsider my faith
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:12 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Whether that’s inherent with religion itself, idk.
It's not.
quote:
But even if it’s just humans bastardizing it, I
It is.
Humans bastardize basically everything they touch. Do you not buy food because of the barbaric nature in which some of it is produced? Do you not take medicine because Big Pharma is a scourge on society? Do you not do business because they are greedy and do everything they can to screw over everyone else in the name of profit? Do you not send your kids to school because there are bad teachers? Would you not call the cops in an emergency because there are bad cops?
C.S. Lewis said something along the lines of "the existence of counterfeit money doesn't mean that the real stuff doesn't exist". May not do much for you but put it into perspective for me. I used to have similar thoughts to you but would encourage to try to learn what the Bible/Jesus actually taught vs. how it is has been used negatively by flawed humans over the centuries. The Bible itself knew people would use it for nefarious purposes and specifically warns us to be wary of false teachers, prophets etc...
This post was edited on 9/12/25 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:13 pm to RandySavage
quote:Yes. BTW, I'm not an atheist. I believe God's hand guided evolution. I also think some other posters in this thread are making my same argument but in a more articulate fashion. It has been 35 years since taking philosophy and theology and using all the erudite terms for this discussion.
Fair point. To counter though, of all of the millions of other species that were created, or evolved, we just happen to be the only ones to have magically developed this cognitive ability while the entirety of nature outside of humans has not?
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:14 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
I cannot get over how much evil has befallen this world, using Christianity(or name any other religion) to justify it. I don’t, or at least haven’t yet, accepted the reasons people give for it happening.
I mean if someone is actually committing evil intentionally, then they're not a Christian and their actions are completely their own.
I can identify as an LSU fan, wear all of the clothes, and post on the message boards. But if I'm actually cheering on Bama vs LSU, then I'm not actually an LSU fan no matter what I say.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:17 pm to mudshuvl05
quote:Of course no one will be able to predict if that would happen for you specifically, but it's certainly possible for someone to follow that path.
So let me get this straight: If I abandon Orthodox Christianity and go back to atheism, there's a chance that I, like you did, can not only learn personal accountability, but also I'll become a better person?
But if it's working for you I'd encourage you to stick with your current Christian value framework.
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:19 pm to Mushroom1968
quote:
if somehow I was told there's no afterlife I'd go back to my old life of pain.
Why would you do that? You'd be missing the metaphor
Posted on 9/12/25 at 5:19 pm to mudshuvl05
quote:
mudshuvl05
fwiw, those are the kinds of comments/attitudes that give Christianity a bad name.
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