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re: Retiring British General Warns NATO Unready for Russian Attack in Europe
Posted on 9/19/16 at 1:56 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 9/19/16 at 1:56 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Here's the problem, Russia could be ready to roll into the Baltic states or even Poland within hours.
Why is that a problem? Explain it to me.
Why should I care?
2
Posted on 9/19/16 at 1:56 pm to PepaSpray
quote:
You have to be an idiot to think Russia could take over or would possibly attack any NATO country.
bingo. At least the main ones...
You might want to do some research on the combat readiness of our European NATO allies. This isn't 1994 any more.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 1:56 pm to Darth_Vader
If Octopussy is any indication, this was a concern in 1983, as well.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:00 pm to Breesus
quote:
Why is that a problem?
Explain it to me. Why should I care?
Ever hear of this thing called NATO?
See the countries in blue? Those are all members of NATO. If anyone attacks any of those blue counties the United States is treaty bound to come to their aid. In other words, if Russia invades some place like Estonia we will have no other choice than to go to war with Russia.
I guess maybe that's something you're too stupid to care about.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:03 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Here's the problem, Russia could be ready to roll into the Baltic states or even Poland within hours.
It would take us weeks, actually months, to move from the US to Europe anything close to a force capable of stopping them.
Didn't we learn after the cold war that Russian military might is one giant facade?
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:11 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Didn't we learn after the cold war that Russian military might is one giant facade?
Actually their military was not a façade, it was potent as hell and had they ever unleashed it across the Fulda Gap (I was there in 88-89 btw) back in the 80's, we'd have been hard pressed to stop them without resorting to the use of nuclear weapons. Their weakness was not their military, their weakness was their leadership and their economy. Their military was no joke.
This post was edited on 9/19/16 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:11 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:Ain't too many places like Estonia.
....some place like Estonia....
Would, with extreme prejudice and vigor.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:15 pm to Darth_Vader
Good thing it isn't the 80s.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:19 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
Good thing it isn't the 80s.
You're right it's not the 80's. But it's not quite as simple as you'd like it to be.
On the one hand you've got Russia which has rebuilt and rearmed to the point they now pose a real military threat to Europe. And they're made it no secret they want to reclaim what they lost when the USSR fell.
And on the other hand you've got NATO and Western Europe who are woefully unprepared to defend themselves.
The situation has become dangerous because a winnable European war is looking more and more plausible for Russia. The best way to ensure peace and stability in Europe is for a war there to not look promising to Russia.
This post was edited on 9/19/16 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:21 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
If anyone attacks any of those blue counties the United States is treaty bound to come to their aid
one reason they see no need to build up a force to oppose any such invasion...because just having us on their side is protection enough. Russia is not that dumb.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:22 pm to Dr RC
quote:
ell if God Emperor Trump does win it won't matter b/c he'll pull us out of NATO and cede Eastern Europe to his good friend Putin anyway
You want to enlist and help fight off the Russian invasion?
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:23 pm to LucasP
Nichevo.
(my favorite russian word)
(my favorite russian word)
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:23 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Putin doesn't harbor ambitions of a worldwide Communist conquest. He does, however, want to resurrect the old Russian Empire. The threat is real. I just don't think he has the capability to pull it off.
I doubt his capability about as much as I doubt our collective willingness to stop him, which is to say a lot.
I don't believe for a second the West has the stomach to fight a full-scale shooting war to save former Soviet Bloc countries from Russian rule. If those countries retain their independence it will be because they have the will and ability to fight Russia themselves.
NATO is a paper tiger.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:24 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
one reason they see no need to build up a force to oppose any such invasion...because just having us on their side is protection enough. Russia is not that dumb.
That was true at one time. Now, not so much. Putin is no idiot. He knows as well as anyone just how weak we are in Europe. He knows Eastern Europe could be had without us being able to do much of anything about it short of resorting to nuclear weapons. And he knows we're not going to do that.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:25 pm to Darth_Vader
I mean, you're basically saying just because Russia can, that they will. They have shown no indication that they are going to launch an invasion and move the border back far enough to reestablish the old Eastern Bloc.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:27 pm to jbgleason
quote:
Before I listen to anything else this guy has to say, I need to know which major military contractor he works for and how much they will make by a military build-up in Europe.
quote:
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:33 pm to Breesus
quote:
Why is that a problem? Explain it to me.
Why should I care?
Well one issue I see, is now you would need a Russian visa to travel to the Baltics, which is a bitch to get. Instead of just being able to travel freely in those countries.
I don't think Putin is going after the Baltics or the Balkans or Poland. The only thing I would see that he may have ambitions for is a opening to Kaliningrad.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:34 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:Sounds eerily like WW1.
See the countries in blue? Those are all members of NATO. If anyone attacks any of those blue counties the United States is treaty bound to come to their aid. In other words, if Russia invades some place like Estonia we will have no other choice than to go to war with Russia.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:36 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
I mean, you're basically saying just because Russia can, that they will. They have shown no indication that they are going to launch an invasion and move the border back far enough to reestablish the old Eastern Bloc.
You've got to stop looking at this issue from just our point of view here in the West. Instead you've got to ask yourself why would Russia want to reclaim their influence in Eastern Europe? When you ask that question, the answer becomes quite clear. Namely that Russia sees NATO spreading into Eastern Europe as a real threat.
Putin 'privately threatened to invade Poland, Romania and the Baltic states'
Russia threatens nuclear attack on Poland over US missile shield deal
Look at it this way, imagine had the Cold War ended in 1991 with our collapse instead of the USSR. Fast forward 25 years and now chucks of the old USA have broken off and some have even joined the Warsaw Pact. How do you think we'd view these developments?
Posted on 9/19/16 at 2:43 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Look at it this way, imagine had the Cold War ended in 1991 with our collapse instead of the USSR. Fast forward 25 years and now chucks of the old USA have broken off and some have even joined the Warsaw Pact. How do you think we'd view these developments?
But don't those states have a reputation for resistance to Russian rule?
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