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Started By
Message
re: Released body camera footage shows cops stood outside Vegas gunman's door in fear
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:39 pm to beerJeep
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:39 pm to beerJeep
Men stormed Normandy knowing they would die.
Back not long ago men were shamed, shunned, and sometimes even executed for such cowardice. Washington executed deserters during the revolutionary war. Now everyone wants to jump in to defend cowardice and protect cowards from public scorn.
This wasnt a random Joe with only rocks to throw, it was a trained and armed officer who could hear bullets raining down on innocent people while neglected his duty(which he was paid for).
Would I “want” to go? Hell no! The thought of innocent people being slaughtered would overwhelm my sense of self preservation...I have zero doubt in my mind..in fact ive already made up my mind that if im in a position to save others, even id be in danger, im gonna do it.
Unless the officer was ordered to stand down, he should go to prison for dereliction of duty.
quote:
There is simply no way of knowing what anyone would do in that situation. And you can sit here and pound your chest all you want, but I promise you have zero idea what you’d do if you were in that situation.
Back not long ago men were shamed, shunned, and sometimes even executed for such cowardice. Washington executed deserters during the revolutionary war. Now everyone wants to jump in to defend cowardice and protect cowards from public scorn.
This wasnt a random Joe with only rocks to throw, it was a trained and armed officer who could hear bullets raining down on innocent people while neglected his duty(which he was paid for).
Would I “want” to go? Hell no! The thought of innocent people being slaughtered would overwhelm my sense of self preservation...I have zero doubt in my mind..in fact ive already made up my mind that if im in a position to save others, even id be in danger, im gonna do it.
Unless the officer was ordered to stand down, he should go to prison for dereliction of duty.
5
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:40 pm to baldona
quote:
How many Rangers and Special Ops guys freeze?
How many guys right off the street enlist and jump into a ranger or spec ops group?
Or are these men and women hand picked after PROVING themselves?
Completely different. Now if these were the elite swat team and they froze sure. You have a point. Let’s compare base level to base leve here bud
quote:
Lol, ok. Cause you IRL know me and that I haven't been shot at?
I don’t. But my guess is as good as yours is. Because you don’t know how YOU Would have reacted unless YOU were in that situation.
I’ve been shot at. I’ve been robbed at knifepoint. That doesn’t have shite to do with being able to overcome your natural instincts to open a door with your sidearm against god knows what on the other side when you know for a fact they have far superior firepower.
This post was edited on 7/3/18 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:41 pm to bamafan1001
After 10 months of investigating, why is this conveniently leaked video all that we know about this event?
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:42 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Men stormed Normandy knowing they would die.
and lots of them froze just like this person
This post was edited on 7/3/18 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:43 pm to Rebel
quote:
After 10 months of investigating, why is this conveniently leaked video all that we know about this event?
Obviously there are things they don’t want the public to know
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:43 pm to deltaland
quote:
couple cans of tear gas to toss in there
Or improvise something. Shoot a fire extinguisher under the door - not quite tear gas but those chemical extinguishers make your life miserable. Pound on the doors and run intermittently to distract the shooter. Shoot a couple of rounds into the room through the door/doors/ or walls. Collateral damage isn’t a concern at that point. Bang on the walls....put a radio by the door and talk through it as though you are standing by the door Via another radio from a safe distance...use a fire hose somehow....do something as a distraction.
I remember when they had the sniper at the Downtown Howard Johnson’s in New Orleans. It went on a lot longer so it had more time to develop but the police didn’t know what they were dealing with for a while. NO residents came downtown with hunting rifles to help. It ended when a helicopter gunship killed the sniper after several passes.
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:44 pm to bamafan1001
Comparing troops in Normandy to a patrol officer. 
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:44 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Men stormed Normandy knowing they would die.
they also weren't worried about being fired
quote:
lots of them froze just like this person
still not cowardly
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:44 pm to NotGrammarKnotsi
I agree, was just responding
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:44 pm to beerJeep
No doubt. If this was SWAT that froze then that would be absolute bullshite.
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:46 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Men stormed Normandy knowing they would die.
Signing up to go to war is a tad different than getting a job as a security guard at a hotel.
quote:
Back not long ago men were shamed, shunned, and sometimes even executed for such cowardice. Washington executed deserters during the revolutionary war. Now everyone wants to jump in to defend cowardice and protect cowards from public scorn.
And back then we had salves too. Congrats? Not being able to go against your natural instincts isn’t cowardice. Its the norm. Those who can go against their natural instincts are the exception.
quote:
This wasnt a random Joe with only rocks to throw, it was a trained and armed officer who could hear bullets raining down on innocent people while neglected his duty(which he was paid for).
And once again. Training doesn’t mean shite when you go against your natural instincts. Some can overcome, most cannot.
quote:
Would I “want” to go? Hell no! The thought of innocent people being slaughtered would overwhelm my sense of self preservation...I have zero doubt in my mind..in fact ive already made up my mind that if im in a position to save others, even id be in danger, im gonna do it.
More power to you. I feel the same. But, fact is. We don’t know what we would do. And I pray that we never get put in the position to find out.
quote:
Unless the officer was ordered to stand down, he should go to prison for dereliction of duty.
Agree to disagree. I wouldn’t have shot a man for refusing to go over the top at verdun either.
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:49 pm to baldona
quote:
Your point is MOOT anyway. This has nothing to do with being shot at. It has everything to do with protecting innocent people. There's a big difference.
You tell your natural instincts that when you’re standing in a hallway with a 9mm sidearm while someone on the other side of that door has a frick ton more firepower.
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:50 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
and lots of them froze just like this person
Oh you were there? Tell me all about it! Ive heard lots of accounts, not one of men refusing to get off the boat or participate in the invasion.
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:52 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Oh you were there? Tell me all about it! Ive heard lots of accounts, not one of men refusing to get off the boat or participate in the invasion
I know on Iwa Jima (spell?) my great uncle said there were soldiers who froze up and wouldn’t go forward
ETA Iwo Jima my bad
This post was edited on 7/3/18 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:53 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Ive heard lots of accounts,
Not from the ones who froze. Because... you know... they. Uh. Died. That’s what happens when you freeze out in the open against superior firepower (garand v mg42)
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:54 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Signing up to go to war
Heres an American history lesson...not all of those men signed up to go war.
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:55 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Frightened coxswains in the other four craft take one quick look, instinctively draw back, and then veer right and left away from the Able Company shambles. So doing, they dodge their duty while giving a break to their passengers. Such is the shock to the boat team leaders, and such their feeling of relief at the turning movement, that not one utters a protest. Lieutenant Leo A. Pingenot's coxswain swings the boat far rightward toward Pointe du Hoc; then, spying a small and deceptively peaceful-looking cove, heads directly for the land. Fifty yards out, Pingenot yells: "Drop the ramp!" The coxswain freezes on the rope, refusing to lower.
Posted on 7/3/18 at 2:56 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Unless the officer was ordered to stand down, he should go to prison for dereliction of duty.
In the video, those guys didn't have a shield, body armor, or anything. I wouldn't imagine they were instructed to bust into that room with just their hand guns.
Actually in the video you can hear on the radio they tell them to take cover.
This post was edited on 7/3/18 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 7/3/18 at 3:00 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Heres an American history lesson...not all of those men signed up to go war.
And here’s another history lesson. Many still froze
Also, since you’re bringing up the draft, you do know that morale of draftees was much lower than enlisted men, right? As well as having more instances of going AWOL? Right?
Also. Men in war tend to have a completely different mindset than civilians and many accept that they will die or get injured.
When you resign yourself to this fate, you can do more.
Yet another massive difference between those serving in the military and those in police uniform .
Posted on 7/3/18 at 3:01 pm to beerJeep
quote:
You tell your natural instincts that when you’re standing in a hallway with a 9mm sidearm while someone on the other side of that door has a frick ton more firepower.
Look that's fine, we get. Some men freeze.
So then, we need to change some laws. Our current laws state that civilians are to stand down and only protect ourselves when being personally attacked. If there was a civilian on that floor with a weapon, it would have been illegal for them to engage the shooter even if the cop was sitting there frozen.
That's my only point. Is our entire system is made so that cops will not freeze, cops are supposed to be there to protect us. This is the 2nd time in recent history that hasn't happened. So if there is no way to test or train for it, then we need to change our method.
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